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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Dovahzul Calligraphy Claw Pen Glove

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Maakrindah
April 26, 2015

This is an idea I've been kicking around in my head for about a year, but never thought it realistic until I found the community at Thuum.org. I shared the idea with one other through private messaging, and now I want to see what the community thinks of it.

I have a basic design sketch for the pen tip on Google Drive. I have no idea if anyone has already tried or is currently working on this specific tool. If so, I'd love to find out about it. The main idea is that the Dov wrote/write the Dragon Runes with their claws, so perhaps using multiple fingers to write the runes would be more efficient and save time. Like typing, the kinesthetic movements would have to be initially learned, but would become a much faster medium once one gets used to it.

The glove itself will follow the pattern of a traditional three-finger glove which leaves the ring and pinky fingers and thier palm pads exposed. The rough design would be similar to the metal finger claws used in costume jewelry, but extended to cover most of the hand and fasten at the wrist. The appearance would be similar to that of dragon claws or the Claw-Keys found in game, perhaps even with the Nordic Totems on the palm. The Calligraphy pen tips would be on the tips of the claws/fingernails and have a felt tip (or other kind of pigment delivery system) the width of the widest point in a dragon rune scratch, and a curved triangular felt tip which allows the curve/curl of the fingers to control the width of the scratch and create a seamless tapering in the drawn line. Dots/stabs can be created using either end (right or left) of the pen tip.

My quick sketch of the pen tip can be found at:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3aj6KpYwcnda3NqQzJPaDRvOHc&authuser=0

 A note about the sketch: The thick lines in the drawing represent outside edges and symmetry lines, so the thick line in the center of the 'tip front' and 'tip back' sections of the sketch do not indicate hard edges as this part of the claw would be the fingernail and therefor have a roundish edge.

Concerning the directions of claw-strokes or scratches: For the right-handed, the thumb can be used to draw upward and left-to-right scratches, while the index and middle fingers can be used to draw downward and right to left. There are no bottom-right to top-left scratches in the Dovahzul alphabet, which is part of the reason I think the scratches were made with three fingers like a dragon's claw (rather than an individual claw which would need the ability to rotate at least 270 degrees). Theoretically, the thumb covers the left corner and 45 degrees to either side (bottom-left-to-top-right, upward & left-to-right), the index finger covers the top left corner and 45 degrees to either side in the same fashion and the middle finger does the same from the top-right. This comfortably covers the 270 degrees of scratch directions.

Let me know what you think. I'd love to have input, or better yet, start a discussion and brainstorm on this. I honestly think that if properly made, these would be excellent lore-themed writing utinsils, and even people who don't write Dovahzul could enjoy the aesthetics or functionality.

by Maakrindah
April 26, 2015

This is an idea I've been kicking around in my head for about a year, but never thought it realistic until I found the community at Thuum.org. I shared the idea with one other through private messaging, and now I want to see what the community thinks of it.

I have a basic design sketch for the pen tip on Google Drive. I have no idea if anyone has already tried or is currently working on this specific tool. If so, I'd love to find out about it. The main idea is that the Dov wrote/write the Dragon Runes with their claws, so perhaps using multiple fingers to write the runes would be more efficient and save time. Like typing, the kinesthetic movements would have to be initially learned, but would become a much faster medium once one gets used to it.

The glove itself will follow the pattern of a traditional three-finger glove which leaves the ring and pinky fingers and thier palm pads exposed. The rough design would be similar to the metal finger claws used in costume jewelry, but extended to cover most of the hand and fasten at the wrist. The appearance would be similar to that of dragon claws or the Claw-Keys found in game, perhaps even with the Nordic Totems on the palm. The Calligraphy pen tips would be on the tips of the claws/fingernails and have a felt tip (or other kind of pigment delivery system) the width of the widest point in a dragon rune scratch, and a curved triangular felt tip which allows the curve/curl of the fingers to control the width of the scratch and create a seamless tapering in the drawn line. Dots/stabs can be created using either end (right or left) of the pen tip.

My quick sketch of the pen tip can be found at:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3aj6KpYwcnda3NqQzJPaDRvOHc&authuser=0

 A note about the sketch: The thick lines in the drawing represent outside edges and symmetry lines, so the thick line in the center of the 'tip front' and 'tip back' sections of the sketch do not indicate hard edges as this part of the claw would be the fingernail and therefor have a roundish edge.

Concerning the directions of claw-strokes or scratches: For the right-handed, the thumb can be used to draw upward and left-to-right scratches, while the index and middle fingers can be used to draw downward and right to left. There are no bottom-right to top-left scratches in the Dovahzul alphabet, which is part of the reason I think the scratches were made with three fingers like a dragon's claw (rather than an individual claw which would need the ability to rotate at least 270 degrees). Theoretically, the thumb covers the left corner and 45 degrees to either side (bottom-left-to-top-right, upward & left-to-right), the index finger covers the top left corner and 45 degrees to either side in the same fashion and the middle finger does the same from the top-right. This comfortably covers the 270 degrees of scratch directions.

Let me know what you think. I'd love to have input, or better yet, start a discussion and brainstorm on this. I honestly think that if properly made, these would be excellent lore-themed writing utinsils, and even people who don't write Dovahzul could enjoy the aesthetics or functionality.


Maakrindah
April 26, 2015

Refillable ink or pigment storage could be inside the fingernail section of the claw (where the blue is on the Sapphire Claw Key in-game). Just another thought.

by Maakrindah
April 26, 2015

Refillable ink or pigment storage could be inside the fingernail section of the claw (where the blue is on the Sapphire Claw Key in-game). Just another thought.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 26, 2015

I had the opportunity to ask questions to the former Bethesda artist Jonah Lobe during a broadcast where he showcased his work on the Skyrim dragon model, specifically Alduin. He indicated that dragons would have written with the flexible claw on their wing, not their feet.

It's still a cool idea. Consider adding paragraphs to your post, though.

by paarthurnax
April 26, 2015

I had the opportunity to ask questions to the former Bethesda artist Jonah Lobe during a broadcast where he showcased his work on the Skyrim dragon model, specifically Alduin. He indicated that dragons would have written with the flexible claw on their wing, not their feet.

It's still a cool idea. Consider adding paragraphs to your post, though.


Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

Funny thing about the paragraphs, I had it written that way, but the text was squished together upon posting. I have not figured out why. I noticed others were able to have line spaces, but mine would only show up on the thread creation screen and edit screens, then disappear after submission. I have no clue how to fix that. Same thing with double spaces, they get turned into single spaces.

by Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

Funny thing about the paragraphs, I had it written that way, but the text was squished together upon posting. I have not figured out why. I noticed others were able to have line spaces, but mine would only show up on the thread creation screen and edit screens, then disappear after submission. I have no clue how to fix that. Same thing with double spaces, they get turned into single spaces.


Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

@Paarthurnax Very grateful for the correction btw. I had been told that before but did not realize the wing claw was that flexible. Makes perfect sense. I would still love to see this implemented though since it would possibly make writing more fun and efficient. Besides, who wouldn't want a claw key glove that doubles as a triple pen?

by Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

@Paarthurnax Very grateful for the correction btw. I had been told that before but did not realize the wing claw was that flexible. Makes perfect sense. I would still love to see this implemented though since it would possibly make writing more fun and efficient. Besides, who wouldn't want a claw key glove that doubles as a triple pen?


Dolroheim
April 27, 2015

I had in mind originally to make a pen that didn't necessarilly have a tip that replicated exactly a dragon claw, but was shaped in such a way so that you could write accurately in runes by angling it a certain way in order to make each slash and line in one motion rather than two. However it is lokking more and more like the tool will, in fact look like a claw. As for the "finger claw", making a glove wouldn't really be necessary. It could potentially be quite a simple concept, whereas all it would be is a metal claw part that would slip onto your finger, and it would either stay there because it fits snuggly enough, or you would hold it on with your thumb and middle finger. You could use it to scratch runes into stone or clay, or you could dip it in ink like a fountain pen and write on paper. The part that gets complicated would be creating a device or apparatus inside the claw that holds ink.

by Dolroheim
April 27, 2015

I had in mind originally to make a pen that didn't necessarilly have a tip that replicated exactly a dragon claw, but was shaped in such a way so that you could write accurately in runes by angling it a certain way in order to make each slash and line in one motion rather than two. However it is lokking more and more like the tool will, in fact look like a claw. As for the "finger claw", making a glove wouldn't really be necessary. It could potentially be quite a simple concept, whereas all it would be is a metal claw part that would slip onto your finger, and it would either stay there because it fits snuggly enough, or you would hold it on with your thumb and middle finger. You could use it to scratch runes into stone or clay, or you could dip it in ink like a fountain pen and write on paper. The part that gets complicated would be creating a device or apparatus inside the claw that holds ink.


Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

@Dolroheim Just wanted to let you know that I consider the claw stylus or other such writing utinsil your idea, and did not mean to step on any toes. I have an idea for the finger claw, but need more time to flesh it out. Of course the ink-dipping idea is great! The ink could soak into a small repository in the 'fingernail' to extend use between using the ink well. By using a pipe or tube which curls or folds upon itself, it could store ink in a way that will make the best use of limited space (like the human digestive system) without having an internal well which could blot or bleed more easily. That (the engraving utinsil that doubles as a writing quill) honestly seems the most lore-friendly and has the most versatile functionality. *Sorry for the poor formatting, I still can't make paragraphs post correctly yet. As soon as I do, I will fix all of my posts.

by Maakrindah
April 27, 2015

@Dolroheim Just wanted to let you know that I consider the claw stylus or other such writing utinsil your idea, and did not mean to step on any toes. I have an idea for the finger claw, but need more time to flesh it out. Of course the ink-dipping idea is great! The ink could soak into a small repository in the 'fingernail' to extend use between using the ink well. By using a pipe or tube which curls or folds upon itself, it could store ink in a way that will make the best use of limited space (like the human digestive system) without having an internal well which could blot or bleed more easily. That (the engraving utinsil that doubles as a writing quill) honestly seems the most lore-friendly and has the most versatile functionality. *Sorry for the poor formatting, I still can't make paragraphs post correctly yet. As soon as I do, I will fix all of my posts.


Dolroheim
April 28, 2015

Also, for your felt-pen idea, keep in mind that a dragon claw is (supposedly) a convex square pyramid, not a traingle pyramid. The tip should be shaped like a square (notice how dots are shaped in runes). Of course, if this prevents you from writing accurately slashes and such with the same geometry as they appear in-game, then it can be compromised.

by Dolroheim
April 28, 2015

Also, for your felt-pen idea, keep in mind that a dragon claw is (supposedly) a convex square pyramid, not a traingle pyramid. The tip should be shaped like a square (notice how dots are shaped in runes). Of course, if this prevents you from writing accurately slashes and such with the same geometry as they appear in-game, then it can be compromised.


Felniir Ahvus
April 29, 2015

Cool idea. I think the metal nibs might make even more claw-like strokes.

by Felniir Ahvus
April 29, 2015

Cool idea. I think the metal nibs might make even more claw-like strokes.


hiith
April 29, 2015

This is a very neat idea. Though I don't think that dip pens or calligraphy pens would work well, considering the amount of skill and upkeep involved in them. It would probably be best to make a sort of mount for writing utensils: holing pencils, pens, and/or markers in a similar fashion to a compass. This wouldn't even have to be a glove as much as just fancy rings.

You could also (probaly easily) create tools to use for etching into clay and such, which would probably be similar to guitar finger-picks:

That's just my thinking.

by hiith
April 29, 2015

This is a very neat idea. Though I don't think that dip pens or calligraphy pens would work well, considering the amount of skill and upkeep involved in them. It would probably be best to make a sort of mount for writing utensils: holing pencils, pens, and/or markers in a similar fashion to a compass. This wouldn't even have to be a glove as much as just fancy rings.

You could also (probaly easily) create tools to use for etching into clay and such, which would probably be similar to guitar finger-picks:

That's just my thinking.


Maakrindah
April 30, 2015
@hiith I think that's a great idea. Simple sometimes works best. although I am wondering about how to get the tapering for the runes.... I think we'll need some kind of special tip for that. And I'm very much interested in creating/helping to create a refillable claw pen. If we can do it, it'll be fantastic, plus saves the mess of ink dipping..........hang on a sec...we wouldn't need to dip ink, we'd just need enough of it to soak into the tip. What about the ink pads used for stamps? We could use that as an ink source and put the tips on any kind of utinsil, ring, claw, glove or toe socks are preferred.....hmmmm.... This would also make it easier to try out different types of tips. Something that absorbs ink well and rolls without smudging too much. Granted ink pads are still a bit messy, but they are much more universal than pen parts and still cleaner than ink wells. Pruzah Tinvaak guys! This is pretty cool. Any thoughts?
by Maakrindah
April 30, 2015
@hiith I think that's a great idea. Simple sometimes works best. although I am wondering about how to get the tapering for the runes.... I think we'll need some kind of special tip for that. And I'm very much interested in creating/helping to create a refillable claw pen. If we can do it, it'll be fantastic, plus saves the mess of ink dipping..........hang on a sec...we wouldn't need to dip ink, we'd just need enough of it to soak into the tip. What about the ink pads used for stamps? We could use that as an ink source and put the tips on any kind of utinsil, ring, claw, glove or toe socks are preferred.....hmmmm.... This would also make it easier to try out different types of tips. Something that absorbs ink well and rolls without smudging too much. Granted ink pads are still a bit messy, but they are much more universal than pen parts and still cleaner than ink wells. Pruzah Tinvaak guys! This is pretty cool. Any thoughts?

hiith
April 30, 2015

In regards to tapering, that could be accomplished with a brush-like tip, as is used in some forms of calligraphy (and I believe it's popular in Chinese calligraphy, which involves holding a brush vertically).

If you could somehow get a marker-like reservoir onto a brush tip, you'd be set. You could dip a brush tip, but I think that it'd be difficult not to get ink on your fingers.

EDIT: These already exist. "Brush pens" or "brush tip markers", they are:

by hiith
April 30, 2015

In regards to tapering, that could be accomplished with a brush-like tip, as is used in some forms of calligraphy (and I believe it's popular in Chinese calligraphy, which involves holding a brush vertically).

If you could somehow get a marker-like reservoir onto a brush tip, you'd be set. You could dip a brush tip, but I think that it'd be difficult not to get ink on your fingers.

EDIT: These already exist. "Brush pens" or "brush tip markers", they are:


Maakrindah
April 30, 2015

That is an excellent suggestion. I think it's possible to try both. Perhaps if I ever do the glove version I will try to make various interchangeable tips. I still want to give the other tips a try as well. I think a rollable tip could be easier. Maybe even a combination tip. (By rollable, I mean that it rolls with the movement/curl of the finger.)

by Maakrindah
April 30, 2015

That is an excellent suggestion. I think it's possible to try both. Perhaps if I ever do the glove version I will try to make various interchangeable tips. I still want to give the other tips a try as well. I think a rollable tip could be easier. Maybe even a combination tip. (By rollable, I mean that it rolls with the movement/curl of the finger.)


Dolroheim
May 1, 2015

My goal was to try to get the runes to look as much like they are etched in stone as possible while being actually written in ink. I was thinking the tapering could be achieved by angling the claw, but I now realize this is actually a bit of a dilemma, as dragons probably created the tapering effect by releaving pressure as they etched it (since they wrote in dirt or stone). I'm am going to try and make a simple dragon claw shaped stylus out of clay (probably this weekend) and tell you all how it works.

by Dolroheim
May 1, 2015

My goal was to try to get the runes to look as much like they are etched in stone as possible while being actually written in ink. I was thinking the tapering could be achieved by angling the claw, but I now realize this is actually a bit of a dilemma, as dragons probably created the tapering effect by releaving pressure as they etched it (since they wrote in dirt or stone). I'm am going to try and make a simple dragon claw shaped stylus out of clay (probably this weekend) and tell you all how it works.


Dolroheim
May 11, 2015

I've made a stylus (last weekend) but I haven't gotten the chance to test it out yet. I'll let you know how it works when I do. I'll send you a picture soon.

by Dolroheim
May 11, 2015

I've made a stylus (last weekend) but I haven't gotten the chance to test it out yet. I'll let you know how it works when I do. I'll send you a picture soon.

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