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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Rethinking Parts of Speech

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paarthurnax
Administrator
January 28, 2015

Yup, that's exactly what I have in mind! Od would be parsed out as:

v. to snow

n. snow

Likewise, nir would be parsed out as:

v. to hunt

n. hunt

We'll have some convention so that we always list the verb definition first, or however that will work. I'll iron out the specifics soon!

by paarthurnax
January 28, 2015

Yup, that's exactly what I have in mind! Od would be parsed out as:

v. to snow

n. snow

Likewise, nir would be parsed out as:

v. to hunt

n. hunt

We'll have some convention so that we always list the verb definition first, or however that will work. I'll iron out the specifics soon!


ZohiifZul
January 28, 2015

This would clear things up, if this is the new way of doing things you should update the on site lessons. Have a whole section on parts of speech exclusive to Dovahzul.

by ZohiifZul
January 28, 2015

This would clear things up, if this is the new way of doing things you should update the on site lessons. Have a whole section on parts of speech exclusive to Dovahzul.


Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, pruzah. Okay. Will I be doing all of this in my document first and then edit the entries, or would you like me to change each entry as I go?

And one more thing. For words like zin, which could potentially be a verb (to honor), a noun, (honor), and/or an adjective (honorable), what new part of speech should I categorize them under? Zin is just an example; I'm sure there are other, better ones.

And let's say there's a word that can be used as an adjective and a verb, but not a noun. What classification would that fall under, if any? Do all of these parts of speech have to involve a noun somehow? And would adverbs classify under the strong and weak adjectives? I really am sorry about all of these questions--I hate wasting your time especially since I'm supposed to be doing this to make your life easier--I just want to do this right. :(

by Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, pruzah. Okay. Will I be doing all of this in my document first and then edit the entries, or would you like me to change each entry as I go?

And one more thing. For words like zin, which could potentially be a verb (to honor), a noun, (honor), and/or an adjective (honorable), what new part of speech should I categorize them under? Zin is just an example; I'm sure there are other, better ones.

And let's say there's a word that can be used as an adjective and a verb, but not a noun. What classification would that fall under, if any? Do all of these parts of speech have to involve a noun somehow? And would adverbs classify under the strong and weak adjectives? I really am sorry about all of these questions--I hate wasting your time especially since I'm supposed to be doing this to make your life easier--I just want to do this right. :(


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 28, 2015

@ZohiifDahrinZul, there'll certainly be new lessons to cover this.

@Aaliizah, no worries! I'm more than happy to answer your questions!

Here's the complete rundown of the parts of speech:

  • Strong Verb - verb and noun (the act of {verb})
  • Weak Verb - verb
  • Noun - noun
  • Strong Adjective - adjective, adverb, verb (to make something {adjective}), noun (the state of being {adjective})
  • Weak Adjective - adjective, adverb, verb (to make something {adjective})

So in the case of zin, this'll actually be a strong adjective:

adj. honored; honorable

adv. honorably

v. to honor

n. honor

 

Now a word like kras "sick" will be a weak adjective since there's an explicit word for the noun form, krasaar "sickness."

adj. sick

adv. sickly

verb. to sicken

 

Let's look at another word, al "destroy/destroyer." This one's more complicated, but it ends up being a strong verb.

v. to destroy

n. destruction; destroyer

adj. destroying, destructive

adv. destructively

Even though it fits all the requirements of a strong adjective, it's actually a strong verb because the root meaning is "to destroy" rather than "destructive." Otherwise its verb form would mean "to make destructive" rather than "to destroy."

We should find a way to talk through each word, maybe a Google doc? And when the time comes, we can bounce ideas off each other.

by paarthurnax
January 28, 2015

@ZohiifDahrinZul, there'll certainly be new lessons to cover this.

@Aaliizah, no worries! I'm more than happy to answer your questions!

Here's the complete rundown of the parts of speech:

  • Strong Verb - verb and noun (the act of {verb})
  • Weak Verb - verb
  • Noun - noun
  • Strong Adjective - adjective, adverb, verb (to make something {adjective}), noun (the state of being {adjective})
  • Weak Adjective - adjective, adverb, verb (to make something {adjective})

So in the case of zin, this'll actually be a strong adjective:

adj. honored; honorable

adv. honorably

v. to honor

n. honor

 

Now a word like kras "sick" will be a weak adjective since there's an explicit word for the noun form, krasaar "sickness."

adj. sick

adv. sickly

verb. to sicken

 

Let's look at another word, al "destroy/destroyer." This one's more complicated, but it ends up being a strong verb.

v. to destroy

n. destruction; destroyer

adj. destroying, destructive

adv. destructively

Even though it fits all the requirements of a strong adjective, it's actually a strong verb because the root meaning is "to destroy" rather than "destructive." Otherwise its verb form would mean "to make destructive" rather than "to destroy."

We should find a way to talk through each word, maybe a Google doc? And when the time comes, we can bounce ideas off each other.


Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, that makes much more sense! Kogaan. :)

Geh, balaan grahmindol! I already have a Google doc going. It's not much because I've had school in the way (ruth!), but it's something! I can share it with you if you'd like.

by Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, that makes much more sense! Kogaan. :)

Geh, balaan grahmindol! I already have a Google doc going. It's not much because I've had school in the way (ruth!), but it's something! I can share it with you if you'd like.


Mul klo riik
January 28, 2015

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?

by Mul klo riik
January 28, 2015

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?


Aaliizah
January 28, 2015
Mul klo riik

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?

Geh, of course! Do you have any offhand? 

by Aaliizah
January 28, 2015
Mul klo riik

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?

Geh, of course! Do you have any offhand? 


Mul klo riik
January 28, 2015
Aaliizah
Mul klo riik

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?

Geh, of course! Do you have any offhand? 

Not now, keep me updated though! Thu'umi los aariil.

by Mul klo riik
January 28, 2015
Aaliizah
Mul klo riik

YES! Finally! I would offer my assistance, if I had more time on me, krosis. Can I... um... offer suggestions persay?

Geh, of course! Do you have any offhand? 

Not now, keep me updated though! Thu'umi los aariil.


Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, and paarthurnax, could pronouns fit under the Noun category?

@Mul klo riik: Kogaan fah hin ahmik, fahdon! Much appreciated. :) I'll let you know if I need anything!

by Aaliizah
January 28, 2015

Oh, and paarthurnax, could pronouns fit under the Noun category?

@Mul klo riik: Kogaan fah hin ahmik, fahdon! Much appreciated. :) I'll let you know if I need anything!


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 29, 2015

@Mul klo riik, we'll appreciate all the help we can get!

All the other parts of speech will remain much like they were, so pronouns are still pronouns, conjunctions are still conjunctions, etc.

by paarthurnax
January 29, 2015

@Mul klo riik, we'll appreciate all the help we can get!

All the other parts of speech will remain much like they were, so pronouns are still pronouns, conjunctions are still conjunctions, etc.


Aaliizah
January 29, 2015

Oh, okay. That sounds good. :) Let me know when and how you'd like us to communicate our ideas to each other.

by Aaliizah
January 29, 2015

Oh, okay. That sounds good. :) Let me know when and how you'd like us to communicate our ideas to each other.


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 30, 2015

I've started a Google Spreadsheet for the canon words! I'm so engrossed in this that I couldn't help but write entries for almost half of them. Aaliizah, Mul klo riik, if you have a Gmail account, PM it to me and I set you both up with editing permissions.

Take a look at the summary/guide I put together and let me know if you have any questions! Use the "comments" column to comment or ask about a particular word.

For now, just focus on the adjectives, verbs, and nouns. We can get to the prepositions, conjunctions, etc. later, which won't be affected by this much.

I changed my mind about expanding definitions after-the-fact. It'll be easier to edit and delete all in one fell swoop - so enter definitions to the fullest ability! Maybe you could start from Z and work backwards, Aaliizah? Mul klo riik, feel free to add or comment where you'd like.

The cool part about this process is that it creates words that can't be found in English. For example, if goraan "young" is used as a verb, it means "to make or become young(er)," an antonym of "to age." Or munax "cruel" as a verb would mean "to make or become cruel." Thus, beyn munax sil "scorn makes the soul cruel."

by paarthurnax
January 30, 2015

I've started a Google Spreadsheet for the canon words! I'm so engrossed in this that I couldn't help but write entries for almost half of them. Aaliizah, Mul klo riik, if you have a Gmail account, PM it to me and I set you both up with editing permissions.

Take a look at the summary/guide I put together and let me know if you have any questions! Use the "comments" column to comment or ask about a particular word.

For now, just focus on the adjectives, verbs, and nouns. We can get to the prepositions, conjunctions, etc. later, which won't be affected by this much.

I changed my mind about expanding definitions after-the-fact. It'll be easier to edit and delete all in one fell swoop - so enter definitions to the fullest ability! Maybe you could start from Z and work backwards, Aaliizah? Mul klo riik, feel free to add or comment where you'd like.

The cool part about this process is that it creates words that can't be found in English. For example, if goraan "young" is used as a verb, it means "to make or become young(er)," an antonym of "to age." Or munax "cruel" as a verb would mean "to make or become cruel." Thus, beyn munax sil "scorn makes the soul cruel."


Aaliizah
January 31, 2015

Geh, pruzah! Fen dreh. Rot nis fun smoliini fah daar wahlsetinvaak!

by Aaliizah
January 31, 2015

Geh, pruzah! Fen dreh. Rot nis fun smoliini fah daar wahlsetinvaak!


paarthurnax
Administrator
February 5, 2015

Thanks for the help so far! I have some feedback on a few words. Most of them are listed as strong adjectives when they perhaps shouldn't be.

A word is possibly a strong adjective if its noun means "the quality of being {adjective}" and its verb means "to make or become {adjective}." For example, "freeze" means "to make or become frozen," so diin is a strong adjective. "Heat" and "hotness" are pretty much equivalents, so frin is also a strong adjective. In addition, the verb means "to heat, to make or become hot."

A word like zul wouldn't be a strong adjective. If the root meaning is "vocal," the noun would have to mean "vocality" and the verb would have to mean "to make or become vocal." This would just be a strong verb.

Zahrahmiik would be similar. This would be a strong verb that means "to sacrifice" and "sacrifice"(something that is sacrificed). "Sacrificial" would be a separate word.

Zaam is a good one. It works because "to enslave" means "to make a slave."

Also, remember to list the parts of speech in the order specified in the document!

by paarthurnax
February 5, 2015

Thanks for the help so far! I have some feedback on a few words. Most of them are listed as strong adjectives when they perhaps shouldn't be.

A word is possibly a strong adjective if its noun means "the quality of being {adjective}" and its verb means "to make or become {adjective}." For example, "freeze" means "to make or become frozen," so diin is a strong adjective. "Heat" and "hotness" are pretty much equivalents, so frin is also a strong adjective. In addition, the verb means "to heat, to make or become hot."

A word like zul wouldn't be a strong adjective. If the root meaning is "vocal," the noun would have to mean "vocality" and the verb would have to mean "to make or become vocal." This would just be a strong verb.

Zahrahmiik would be similar. This would be a strong verb that means "to sacrifice" and "sacrifice"(something that is sacrificed). "Sacrificial" would be a separate word.

Zaam is a good one. It works because "to enslave" means "to make a slave."

Also, remember to list the parts of speech in the order specified in the document!


Aaliizah
February 6, 2015

Unslaad krosis! Zu'u mey. Thank you for the help. I'll get right on it.

by Aaliizah
February 6, 2015

Unslaad krosis! Zu'u mey. Thank you for the help. I'll get right on it.

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