Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Philosophical Questions about TES & Dov

 1 

Orkar Isber
May 19, 2016

I hope you guys are familiar with the concepts of Amaranth and the step before it - CHIM for the debate so 

 

1) What exactly are dovahhe? As far as i know, Akatosh is a dragon, now Akatosh is also an Aedra meaning one of the first beings in the "dream", unlike Padomei and Anu not a "real" being but already created inside the dream with kinda godlike powers. Akatosh likely the first of the Aedra also is the planet nirn - so dragons are Aedra and essences of Nirn? 

 

2) If Dragons are essences of Nirn, wouldnt that mean that by killing them, you destroy a part of Nirn itself? Or that not even the Dovahkiin can really destroy them cause their essence is tied to the very nature surrounding him? Or does that mean that in turn, the Dovahkiin can destory Aedra (and thus likely Daedra) for good?

 

3) If thr Aurbis is just a dream, and CHIM allows you to be aware of it and manipulate the dream, what is the Dovahkiin? Is it just another half god depending on the dream or could the mastery of the THUUM actually be an instrument of a state before CHIM? Vivec, who achieved CHIM stated on many occasions that words, even if written, carry divine power. May just have been a poetry thing but may also have another meaning to it, also Hjalti is said to have achieved CHIM and he also was dragonborn and a master of the voice, wouldnt that mean that THUUM and CHIM are related? Both allow you to defy reality and reshape the land without the use of magical energy from Aetherius, both can undo reality (resurrect dragon) and seemingly there could be a thuum or mask that allows time travel (speculated) which is definitely more CHIM like. Yet Thuum are somewhat limited and seemingly have no potential to wake the dreamer so could Thuum be sort of utilised CHIM?

4) Time: Now it gets complicated, so if existance is just a dream, time does not exist linear, as a dream can change drasticly and go back and forth in time without problems, you could walk in a medieval world take a turn around a corner and be in a futuristic space society, and while there is no evidence for Time Travel in TES at least none that i know of, it should be entirely possible. And that brings me to time and dov - dov are said to be eternal, unchanging beings and any change they may undergo is eternal, even eradicating the past, so that it is as if the dovah in question also had been this way. But as we see in Skyrim with the captive dragon, seemingly dragons have a clear past and can change so....is it really eternal or "out of time" or is it just that Dovahhe TREAT other dov as if they always had been that way without them actually being like that forever?

5) Ultimately, dragons can change, like Parthurnax shows well, but if they are tied to nirn and are divine, does that mean the world around them changes accordingly? Even time, so that the change is indeed "eternal" or does it cause a dragon break? Or is it just pretending that it always has been that way without accepting the past? Or is it actually changing the past? Or is it simply that dragons dont care about past and future as only the present counts pretty much like the buddhist thinking that there is no past or future, just the now and thats all that counts?

 

6) So if Paarthurnax was kinda cruel and evil in the past, but now is a good and human loving dragon who fights his own need for dominance with meditation, he is aware of his past, so seemingly his past as evil dude existed and is still existing for eternity but he, as a dovah, is eternal, unchanging and kinda outside of time, as bormahii clearly is the god of time itself...does that mean that Paarthurnax actually is still the cruel evil guy from the past as he cant change and just pretending to be nicea s kind of deceit, or did he actually change and just pretend to always have been that way or did his change create a dragon break where in our reality, Parthurnax always has been the nice guy and in another reality paarthurnax still is evil? Or is there some kind of change made by Akatosh, i mean that it always has been the idea, the existance of paarthurnax to change at that point in time, like fate - that he always was supposed to do what he did and thus has no free will but just acts as akatosh demanded, that the evil paarthurnax already was destined to change from the very beginning and thus is the same dragon for eternity as every change that may occur was already set at the beginning of time? And wouldnt that kinda break the concept of CHIM?

 

 

by Orkar Isber
May 19, 2016

I hope you guys are familiar with the concepts of Amaranth and the step before it - CHIM for the debate so 

 

1) What exactly are dovahhe? As far as i know, Akatosh is a dragon, now Akatosh is also an Aedra meaning one of the first beings in the "dream", unlike Padomei and Anu not a "real" being but already created inside the dream with kinda godlike powers. Akatosh likely the first of the Aedra also is the planet nirn - so dragons are Aedra and essences of Nirn? 

 

2) If Dragons are essences of Nirn, wouldnt that mean that by killing them, you destroy a part of Nirn itself? Or that not even the Dovahkiin can really destroy them cause their essence is tied to the very nature surrounding him? Or does that mean that in turn, the Dovahkiin can destory Aedra (and thus likely Daedra) for good?

 

3) If thr Aurbis is just a dream, and CHIM allows you to be aware of it and manipulate the dream, what is the Dovahkiin? Is it just another half god depending on the dream or could the mastery of the THUUM actually be an instrument of a state before CHIM? Vivec, who achieved CHIM stated on many occasions that words, even if written, carry divine power. May just have been a poetry thing but may also have another meaning to it, also Hjalti is said to have achieved CHIM and he also was dragonborn and a master of the voice, wouldnt that mean that THUUM and CHIM are related? Both allow you to defy reality and reshape the land without the use of magical energy from Aetherius, both can undo reality (resurrect dragon) and seemingly there could be a thuum or mask that allows time travel (speculated) which is definitely more CHIM like. Yet Thuum are somewhat limited and seemingly have no potential to wake the dreamer so could Thuum be sort of utilised CHIM?

4) Time: Now it gets complicated, so if existance is just a dream, time does not exist linear, as a dream can change drasticly and go back and forth in time without problems, you could walk in a medieval world take a turn around a corner and be in a futuristic space society, and while there is no evidence for Time Travel in TES at least none that i know of, it should be entirely possible. And that brings me to time and dov - dov are said to be eternal, unchanging beings and any change they may undergo is eternal, even eradicating the past, so that it is as if the dovah in question also had been this way. But as we see in Skyrim with the captive dragon, seemingly dragons have a clear past and can change so....is it really eternal or "out of time" or is it just that Dovahhe TREAT other dov as if they always had been that way without them actually being like that forever?

5) Ultimately, dragons can change, like Parthurnax shows well, but if they are tied to nirn and are divine, does that mean the world around them changes accordingly? Even time, so that the change is indeed "eternal" or does it cause a dragon break? Or is it just pretending that it always has been that way without accepting the past? Or is it actually changing the past? Or is it simply that dragons dont care about past and future as only the present counts pretty much like the buddhist thinking that there is no past or future, just the now and thats all that counts?

 

6) So if Paarthurnax was kinda cruel and evil in the past, but now is a good and human loving dragon who fights his own need for dominance with meditation, he is aware of his past, so seemingly his past as evil dude existed and is still existing for eternity but he, as a dovah, is eternal, unchanging and kinda outside of time, as bormahii clearly is the god of time itself...does that mean that Paarthurnax actually is still the cruel evil guy from the past as he cant change and just pretending to be nicea s kind of deceit, or did he actually change and just pretend to always have been that way or did his change create a dragon break where in our reality, Parthurnax always has been the nice guy and in another reality paarthurnax still is evil? Or is there some kind of change made by Akatosh, i mean that it always has been the idea, the existance of paarthurnax to change at that point in time, like fate - that he always was supposed to do what he did and thus has no free will but just acts as akatosh demanded, that the evil paarthurnax already was destined to change from the very beginning and thus is the same dragon for eternity as every change that may occur was already set at the beginning of time? And wouldnt that kinda break the concept of CHIM?

 

 

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