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Dovahzul Cursive Script  1  2 > >>  
Cursive handwriting of Dovahzul

Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017

For the past couple of days, I've been putting a lot of hours into a cursive script for the Dovahzul language writing system.  I had been practicing the runes whenever I had the time, but found them "clunky" to write consistently, thus the idea for a cursive version.

---

EDIT: Newest Alphabet Version Here:

"Lower" Alphabet (written on the baseline) - [mah vensesik]

Cursive Alphabet V10

"Raised" Alphabet (fits in one space) - [alok vensesik]

Raised Alphabet (

---

(Original Post)

I don't have a digital version of it, but I do have some written samples so people can see:

http://i.imgur.com/T5M2xAx.jpg

Sample words in parallel to their runes:

Fus Ro Da, Paarthurnax, Drem Yol Lok

http://i.imgur.com/CLEmdOe.jpg

First paragraph from stanza from Daalsezin (by Frinmulaar, in the Library)

http://i.imgur.com/ohudnTu.jpg

(It was very tricky to get close approximations to the runes, maintain consistency, and make it legible.)

I hope to make a digital font version of this in the future, but for now I am looking for feedback on the design and utility.

 

by Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017

For the past couple of days, I've been putting a lot of hours into a cursive script for the Dovahzul language writing system.  I had been practicing the runes whenever I had the time, but found them "clunky" to write consistently, thus the idea for a cursive version.

---

EDIT: Newest Alphabet Version Here:

"Lower" Alphabet (written on the baseline) - [mah vensesik]

Cursive Alphabet V10

"Raised" Alphabet (fits in one space) - [alok vensesik]

Raised Alphabet (

---

(Original Post)

I don't have a digital version of it, but I do have some written samples so people can see:

http://i.imgur.com/T5M2xAx.jpg

Sample words in parallel to their runes:

Fus Ro Da, Paarthurnax, Drem Yol Lok

http://i.imgur.com/CLEmdOe.jpg

First paragraph from stanza from Daalsezin (by Frinmulaar, in the Library)

http://i.imgur.com/ohudnTu.jpg

(It was very tricky to get close approximations to the runes, maintain consistency, and make it legible.)

I hope to make a digital font version of this in the future, but for now I am looking for feedback on the design and utility.

 


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 5, 2017

Wow, this is really impressive, tjp7154! As you said, it's a big challenge to invent something that resembles the original runes and is easy to write. It's quite difficult for me to read but that's probably because I'm not familiar with the system yet.

At a glance, the letters that I think are really well done are "F", "L", "M", "S", "T", and "ah". They're elegant and immediately recognizable.

The vowels are probably the most challenging letters to design since they often only differ in the placement of the dots and hooks. I like how you used loops to resemble dots and slashes to resemble hooks. Unfortunately I have a really hard time distinguishing between ""G", "H", "ii", "N", ""U", "W", and "X" since they all resemble a cursive "Y" with minute differences.

This section of the lessons shows which sets of dragon runes closely resemble one another, which might be helpful when designing the cursive versions. Having many, small sets of similar letters will be better for readability than a few, large sets, if that makes any sense. For example, in the linked table there are 7 similar rune sets but those sets don't include more than 4 runes each. When you see a rune that looks like other runes, you only have at most 4 runes to guess from. By comparison, a set of 7 similar runes would make guessing those runes a lot harder.

I'm eager to see more!

by paarthurnax
January 5, 2017

Wow, this is really impressive, tjp7154! As you said, it's a big challenge to invent something that resembles the original runes and is easy to write. It's quite difficult for me to read but that's probably because I'm not familiar with the system yet.

At a glance, the letters that I think are really well done are "F", "L", "M", "S", "T", and "ah". They're elegant and immediately recognizable.

The vowels are probably the most challenging letters to design since they often only differ in the placement of the dots and hooks. I like how you used loops to resemble dots and slashes to resemble hooks. Unfortunately I have a really hard time distinguishing between ""G", "H", "ii", "N", ""U", "W", and "X" since they all resemble a cursive "Y" with minute differences.

This section of the lessons shows which sets of dragon runes closely resemble one another, which might be helpful when designing the cursive versions. Having many, small sets of similar letters will be better for readability than a few, large sets, if that makes any sense. For example, in the linked table there are 7 similar rune sets but those sets don't include more than 4 runes each. When you see a rune that looks like other runes, you only have at most 4 runes to guess from. By comparison, a set of 7 similar runes would make guessing those runes a lot harder.

I'm eager to see more!


Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017

Thanks for the response!  I definitely understand the comment about keeping similar letters in small groups.  It took over five iterations to get my current draft.  Originally, "a", "aa", and "q" were rough spots and  went through multiple iterations.  Definitely, "g" and "h" and "ii" are there as well.  I tried to differentiate the "n" by making it diagonal, as I had the "k".

Concerning your comment about the 7 similar letters:

The "w" and"x" letters (like the "t") have that horizontal line (that loops slightly) to distinguish them from the other letters.  This would form a smaller group of 3 that look like "n".

Here's the next version (below the alphabet are the similar letters):

http://i.imgur.com/3SZKUMB.jpg

Changes made:

- I raised the "q" and adjusted "a" and "aa".

- I raised the tips of the lines of "g" to differentiate it better from the "h"

- I gave "ii" a more pronounced line underneath.

 

I'll need to practice this new alphabet and test it on words and paragraphs...

by Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017

Thanks for the response!  I definitely understand the comment about keeping similar letters in small groups.  It took over five iterations to get my current draft.  Originally, "a", "aa", and "q" were rough spots and  went through multiple iterations.  Definitely, "g" and "h" and "ii" are there as well.  I tried to differentiate the "n" by making it diagonal, as I had the "k".

Concerning your comment about the 7 similar letters:

The "w" and"x" letters (like the "t") have that horizontal line (that loops slightly) to distinguish them from the other letters.  This would form a smaller group of 3 that look like "n".

Here's the next version (below the alphabet are the similar letters):

http://i.imgur.com/3SZKUMB.jpg

Changes made:

- I raised the "q" and adjusted "a" and "aa".

- I raised the tips of the lines of "g" to differentiate it better from the "h"

- I gave "ii" a more pronounced line underneath.

 

I'll need to practice this new alphabet and test it on words and paragraphs...


Ruvgein
January 5, 2017

It may not work for this but, we dot our "i"s and cross our "t"s, in cursive just like we do it "regular". Would incorporating that when dots are used make it easier?

Just a thought.

by Ruvgein
January 5, 2017

It may not work for this but, we dot our "i"s and cross our "t"s, in cursive just like we do it "regular". Would incorporating that when dots are used make it easier?

Just a thought.


Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017
Ruvgein
It may not work for this but, we dot our "i"s and cross our "t"s, in cursive just like we do it "regular". Would incorporating that when dots are used make it easier? Just a thought.

Heh.  Good question.  There aren't a lot of places for dots in the English language, but in Dovahzul, wow, there are a lot.  I think there'd be too many breaks in the writing.  I actually considered breaks in some of my first versions but settled for more fluidity.

by Zinrahzul
January 5, 2017
Ruvgein
It may not work for this but, we dot our "i"s and cross our "t"s, in cursive just like we do it "regular". Would incorporating that when dots are used make it easier? Just a thought.

Heh.  Good question.  There aren't a lot of places for dots in the English language, but in Dovahzul, wow, there are a lot.  I think there'd be too many breaks in the writing.  I actually considered breaks in some of my first versions but settled for more fluidity.


Zinrahzul
January 7, 2017

Ok, big change this time.  I've started utilizing the long loops like those used in the English cursive script.  For example, the letters "l" and "h" have loops for the stems.

http://i.imgur.com/MhdVQKw.jpg

In addition to adding loops, I've overhauled "d", "ey", "ii", "j", "k", "n", "q", "r", "y", and "z".  I've included samples to show how it writes now:

"Fus Ro Da"

http://i.imgur.com/LtROpn0.png

"Paarthurnax" and "Drem Yol Lok"

http://i.imgur.com/pYWZt7n.jpg

"Daalsezin", First Stanza  (by Frinmulaar, in the Library)

http://i.imgur.com/uyy7tPy.jpg

I think there's enough distinction between the letters.  I've plan on writing whole blocks of lines from various sources in the Library and will see if, when I try to read them from the beginning, I can actually make out the letters.

 

What do you all think?

by Zinrahzul
January 7, 2017

Ok, big change this time.  I've started utilizing the long loops like those used in the English cursive script.  For example, the letters "l" and "h" have loops for the stems.

http://i.imgur.com/MhdVQKw.jpg

In addition to adding loops, I've overhauled "d", "ey", "ii", "j", "k", "n", "q", "r", "y", and "z".  I've included samples to show how it writes now:

"Fus Ro Da"

http://i.imgur.com/LtROpn0.png

"Paarthurnax" and "Drem Yol Lok"

http://i.imgur.com/pYWZt7n.jpg

"Daalsezin", First Stanza  (by Frinmulaar, in the Library)

http://i.imgur.com/uyy7tPy.jpg

I think there's enough distinction between the letters.  I've plan on writing whole blocks of lines from various sources in the Library and will see if, when I try to read them from the beginning, I can actually make out the letters.

 

What do you all think?


Frinmulaar
January 8, 2017
This revision adds a lot of legibility, looks about on par with classical Cyrillic handwriting. That is to say, viable.

The loops seem a little chaotic compared to the earlier edition which was static and balanced. I wonder if there is a middle ground?

In any case, great job for such a different medium. And I like your choice of sample text.
by Frinmulaar
January 8, 2017
This revision adds a lot of legibility, looks about on par with classical Cyrillic handwriting. That is to say, viable.

The loops seem a little chaotic compared to the earlier edition which was static and balanced. I wonder if there is a middle ground?

In any case, great job for such a different medium. And I like your choice of sample text.

Zinrahzul
January 9, 2017

After the last alphabet version, I've practiced writing them a lot, evaluating how easy they are to write repeatedly and in combinations.  The loops at the end of letters help immensely when it comes to writing semi-quickly.  However, there are exceptions I've noticed.  

The following letters I can adjust to have less loops and still make them easy to write:

"A", "L", "O" (the worst-looking long-looping one imo), and maybe "M" and "Z".

The other long loops came out of necessity, when they seemed to come out naturally when writing somewhat quickly ("D" and "R" are the best examples of this).  Long loops also serve to differentiate letters better.

I've also made other changes which also improve writability and readability.

(EDIT: Updated Image in Post below)

With this current alphabet, I've generally been able to write quickly and without too many weird angle and loop direction changes.  

I'll need feedback to make sure it's workable.  Any thoughts?

by Zinrahzul
January 9, 2017

After the last alphabet version, I've practiced writing them a lot, evaluating how easy they are to write repeatedly and in combinations.  The loops at the end of letters help immensely when it comes to writing semi-quickly.  However, there are exceptions I've noticed.  

The following letters I can adjust to have less loops and still make them easy to write:

"A", "L", "O" (the worst-looking long-looping one imo), and maybe "M" and "Z".

The other long loops came out of necessity, when they seemed to come out naturally when writing somewhat quickly ("D" and "R" are the best examples of this).  Long loops also serve to differentiate letters better.

I've also made other changes which also improve writability and readability.

(EDIT: Updated Image in Post below)

With this current alphabet, I've generally been able to write quickly and without too many weird angle and loop direction changes.  

I'll need feedback to make sure it's workable.  Any thoughts?


Zinrahzul
January 9, 2017

Current Version (1/9/17)

"Zoomed" Version (shows details)

by Zinrahzul
January 9, 2017

Current Version (1/9/17)

"Zoomed" Version (shows details)


Frinmulaar
January 12, 2017

Here's a text I wrote in an imitation of the version above. (Had the raw text on the back burner for months but didn't get around to sharing it)

I had my doubts, but now I have to say you've done an impressive job. The letter forms feel even easier than plain runes to me - might be because their connected parts are easier to keep uniform. The only pair I'm having trouble with is 'E' and 'ir', the rest are clearly distinguishable after an hour or so of practise.

Zu'u saraan frin! I'm eager to see what can be made by continuing on this path.

by Frinmulaar
January 12, 2017

Here's a text I wrote in an imitation of the version above. (Had the raw text on the back burner for months but didn't get around to sharing it)

I had my doubts, but now I have to say you've done an impressive job. The letter forms feel even easier than plain runes to me - might be because their connected parts are easier to keep uniform. The only pair I'm having trouble with is 'E' and 'ir', the rest are clearly distinguishable after an hour or so of practise.

Zu'u saraan frin! I'm eager to see what can be made by continuing on this path.


Zinrahzul
January 12, 2017

Here's the newest alphabet side-by-side with the original runes, as requested by Ruvgein:

Version 10 - 1/12/17

Note: the long loops (like for "m", "[M]") are there for legibility and writability, as they provide breaks in the vertically oriented lines and seem to occur naturally in the letters (at least to my experience).

by Zinrahzul
January 12, 2017

Here's the newest alphabet side-by-side with the original runes, as requested by Ruvgein:

Version 10 - 1/12/17

Note: the long loops (like for "m", "[M]") are there for legibility and writability, as they provide breaks in the vertically oriented lines and seem to occur naturally in the letters (at least to my experience).


Zinrahzul
January 14, 2017
As I said in the Community Wall, thank you Frinmulaar for taking the time to try out the cursive script. For the most part, I can quickly point out letters that you've written. From zoomed out it's hard to tell some of the [h] and [m]. Otherwise, I can pick the words out.

The [e] will have at least the middle loop. After the loop, you stop at the bottom then go straight up for the next letter. You can loop at the last part, too, if that's more natural. In that case, the [e] has two loops, and the [ir] has only loop at the bottom.

I think I can also make the [ir] more pronounced by making it larger, like the "capital" [e]. The [e] would be only half the size of the [ir].

Also, cursive now has a name: [vensesik] (vensesik) "current of rune(s)".

If anyone has anything they'd like me to write in cursive, I can give more samples.

Any thoughts?
by Zinrahzul
January 14, 2017
As I said in the Community Wall, thank you Frinmulaar for taking the time to try out the cursive script. For the most part, I can quickly point out letters that you've written. From zoomed out it's hard to tell some of the [h] and [m]. Otherwise, I can pick the words out.

The [e] will have at least the middle loop. After the loop, you stop at the bottom then go straight up for the next letter. You can loop at the last part, too, if that's more natural. In that case, the [e] has two loops, and the [ir] has only loop at the bottom.

I think I can also make the [ir] more pronounced by making it larger, like the "capital" [e]. The [e] would be only half the size of the [ir].

Also, cursive now has a name: [vensesik] (vensesik) "current of rune(s)".

If anyone has anything they'd like me to write in cursive, I can give more samples.

Any thoughts?

Zinrahzul
January 15, 2017

I've been practicing writing the cursive script (Vensesik) and decided to practice it on a project Liis has been doing -- a Dovahzul Beowulf translation (link: https://www.thuum.org/viewthread.php?thread=1487).  Here's just the Prologue (all I've done so far).  You can get a general view of how the script looks.  See if you can read the letters...

http://i.imgur.com/ESaITqm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/q8cRwXt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1pSYQss.jpg

by Zinrahzul
January 15, 2017

I've been practicing writing the cursive script (Vensesik) and decided to practice it on a project Liis has been doing -- a Dovahzul Beowulf translation (link: https://www.thuum.org/viewthread.php?thread=1487).  Here's just the Prologue (all I've done so far).  You can get a general view of how the script looks.  See if you can read the letters...

http://i.imgur.com/ESaITqm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/q8cRwXt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1pSYQss.jpg


Zinrahzul
January 23, 2017

After looking at Frinmulaar's cursive sample and being annoyed at the extra space needed to clearly write the cursive, I have introduced an alternative alphabet and concept:  By raising up the cursive alphabet, you are now able to use each space in a compact manner:

 

"Raised alphabet"

Cursive Alphabet V11

(Note: [h] has multiple versions, dependant on the previous letter -- the lower version is closer to the runes themselves)

Small Sample "Warrior Priest" by Paarthurnax (in the Library) with the raised alphabet:

Warrior Priest Sample - Raised

"Daalsezin" Sample (Raised): http://i.imgur.com/lXaAPeR.jpg

 

Same Sample "Warrior Priest" by Paarthurnax (in the Library) with the lowered alphabet:

Warrior Priest - Lowered

"Daalsezin" Sample (original, lowered): http://i.imgur.com/1pSYQss.jpg

 

I've been practicing with the raised alphabet for over a week and I've noticed some things:

- The raised version looks a lot closer to the original runes that the original version.

- The raised version looks more "wavy" than its lower counterpart (not unlike the original rune writings).

 

I'm interested in any opinions (if anyone's willing to give the new alphabet a try).  As always, if you want a sample in the raised (or lowered) alphabet, I can provide it.

Thoughts?

 

 

by Zinrahzul
January 23, 2017

After looking at Frinmulaar's cursive sample and being annoyed at the extra space needed to clearly write the cursive, I have introduced an alternative alphabet and concept:  By raising up the cursive alphabet, you are now able to use each space in a compact manner:

 

"Raised alphabet"

Cursive Alphabet V11

(Note: [h] has multiple versions, dependant on the previous letter -- the lower version is closer to the runes themselves)

Small Sample "Warrior Priest" by Paarthurnax (in the Library) with the raised alphabet:

Warrior Priest Sample - Raised

"Daalsezin" Sample (Raised): http://i.imgur.com/lXaAPeR.jpg

 

Same Sample "Warrior Priest" by Paarthurnax (in the Library) with the lowered alphabet:

Warrior Priest - Lowered

"Daalsezin" Sample (original, lowered): http://i.imgur.com/1pSYQss.jpg

 

I've been practicing with the raised alphabet for over a week and I've noticed some things:

- The raised version looks a lot closer to the original runes that the original version.

- The raised version looks more "wavy" than its lower counterpart (not unlike the original rune writings).

 

I'm interested in any opinions (if anyone's willing to give the new alphabet a try).  As always, if you want a sample in the raised (or lowered) alphabet, I can provide it.

Thoughts?

 

 


Ruvgein
January 24, 2017

Alok Vensesik looks more like what a person would write informally, while Mah Vensesik, though it takes more room, is more formal and proper.

I like both, this is just my thoughts on having them. I would use raised when I'm writing things to pick up for supper, or taking notes. But lower looks neater, and would be for writing letters to friends and family, or being a scribe.

by Ruvgein
January 24, 2017

Alok Vensesik looks more like what a person would write informally, while Mah Vensesik, though it takes more room, is more formal and proper.

I like both, this is just my thoughts on having them. I would use raised when I'm writing things to pick up for supper, or taking notes. But lower looks neater, and would be for writing letters to friends and family, or being a scribe.

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