Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Modern words poll.

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Loniizrath
April 7, 2014

Here's the poll: http://strawpoll.me/1457963

Which did you vote for, and why?

by Loniizrath
April 7, 2014

Here's the poll: http://strawpoll.me/1457963

Which did you vote for, and why?


Vulsaarkven
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement. I reason this as to remove any barrier(s) to making Dovahzul lexiconically complete. I'd like to see this as a fully fledged language.

by Vulsaarkven
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement. I reason this as to remove any barrier(s) to making Dovahzul lexiconically complete. I'd like to see this as a fully fledged language.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 7, 2014

To elaborate some more on this, the premise is to add a fourth canon level or another kind of identifier to be used to add modern words to the dictionary. Thus far the language has expanded under the guidelines of staying within The Elder Scrolls lore. I'd be interested to hear any and all opinions.

If this were to happen, I have some additional thoughts on how this could be implemented in a way that might be able to appease both sides of the debate.

My thought is to have a user setting where you can "show" or "hide" modern words from the dictionary pages and search page. This way, users who wish to make use of modern words can do so and users who don't care for modern words can use the site without ever coming across them. This idea could extend to showing or hiding invented words too, so if someone wanted a canon-only site they could have that.

For opponents of modern words, would the existence of such a setting influence your opinion?

For proponents of modern words, you have a whole can of worms ahead of you as far as what exactly a "modern word" is. I think the obvious purpose is to be able to express things such as "car", "phone", etc. But would this include slang, place/people names, even fictional names from outside The Elder Scrolls? Before this could happen I think a consensus would need to be reached on what is or isn't allowed under a hypothetical "modern word" canon level.

by paarthurnax
April 7, 2014

To elaborate some more on this, the premise is to add a fourth canon level or another kind of identifier to be used to add modern words to the dictionary. Thus far the language has expanded under the guidelines of staying within The Elder Scrolls lore. I'd be interested to hear any and all opinions.

If this were to happen, I have some additional thoughts on how this could be implemented in a way that might be able to appease both sides of the debate.

My thought is to have a user setting where you can "show" or "hide" modern words from the dictionary pages and search page. This way, users who wish to make use of modern words can do so and users who don't care for modern words can use the site without ever coming across them. This idea could extend to showing or hiding invented words too, so if someone wanted a canon-only site they could have that.

For opponents of modern words, would the existence of such a setting influence your opinion?

For proponents of modern words, you have a whole can of worms ahead of you as far as what exactly a "modern word" is. I think the obvious purpose is to be able to express things such as "car", "phone", etc. But would this include slang, place/people names, even fictional names from outside The Elder Scrolls? Before this could happen I think a consensus would need to be reached on what is or isn't allowed under a hypothetical "modern word" canon level.


Odgrohiikah
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement. However I think that the separation between the non modern Dovahzul and this fourth canon should be very emphatic. A fourth "modern" canon would help the language to be more complete, wide and therefore usable (in common situations).

I think that this fourth "modern" canon should be known as a different part of the language, and that should be very clear. A consensus is a good idea, and defining parameters would keep the new canon from drifting off and becoming too different from the original language.

by Odgrohiikah
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement. However I think that the separation between the non modern Dovahzul and this fourth canon should be very emphatic. A fourth "modern" canon would help the language to be more complete, wide and therefore usable (in common situations).

I think that this fourth "modern" canon should be known as a different part of the language, and that should be very clear. A consensus is a good idea, and defining parameters would keep the new canon from drifting off and becoming too different from the original language.


hiith
April 7, 2014

I don't want modern words. I think that the Dragon Tongue should keep its way-back-in-timey mindset. But, if everybody is soo insistent of it, then I would be much pleased with the option to filter search results by canon-level-identifier-thing. But, even then, people will still USE the modern words, and I don't want that. But I understand that people don't quite see it as I do (maybe I'm just crazy), soo... whatevs. But seriously. But whatevs.

by hiith
April 7, 2014

I don't want modern words. I think that the Dragon Tongue should keep its way-back-in-timey mindset. But, if everybody is soo insistent of it, then I would be much pleased with the option to filter search results by canon-level-identifier-thing. But, even then, people will still USE the modern words, and I don't want that. But I understand that people don't quite see it as I do (maybe I'm just crazy), soo... whatevs. But seriously. But whatevs.


Mahlaansaviik
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement because I would like to be able to use the language more often and have the ability to describe day-to-day things. I can understand why some people may be against the change, but I think it will turn out to be another change that is not as bad as everyone against it thinks it is. 

by Mahlaansaviik
April 7, 2014

I voted for the movement because I would like to be able to use the language more often and have the ability to describe day-to-day things. I can understand why some people may be against the change, but I think it will turn out to be another change that is not as bad as everyone against it thinks it is. 


hiith
April 7, 2014

Hm. Perhaps modern words should just be made to the perspective of the language's origins, like computers being something literal like "thinking-machines" and phones as "talking-machines" (then wouldn't smartphones be "thinking-talking-machines"?). Hm.

by hiith
April 7, 2014

Hm. Perhaps modern words should just be made to the perspective of the language's origins, like computers being something literal like "thinking-machines" and phones as "talking-machines" (then wouldn't smartphones be "thinking-talking-machines"?). Hm.


Mirkrilaar
April 8, 2014

I approve of the idea of a fourth canon to seperate from the normal language, but of course, final decision is up to Paarthurnax, and I approve of his judgement either way.

by Mirkrilaar
April 8, 2014

I approve of the idea of a fourth canon to seperate from the normal language, but of course, final decision is up to Paarthurnax, and I approve of his judgement either way.


maatdopah
April 8, 2014

I want this to be a fully fledged language. I voted for the movement

by maatdopah
April 8, 2014

I want this to be a fully fledged language. I voted for the movement


otakufreak40
April 8, 2014

I think modern concepts should be worded on an individual basis. Someone might think that modern concepts should be taken from other languages while others might think they should be based off of already existing DVZ words. One will be unable to change the other's mind.

 

Let's use "car" for an example. For the first camp the word might be "automob", coming from "automobile". The second camp may want something like "meyarborodon" (or a shorter version) meaning "self carriage". Not only will the camps not agree, they might just ignore the "official" word in favor of their own.

by otakufreak40
April 8, 2014

I think modern concepts should be worded on an individual basis. Someone might think that modern concepts should be taken from other languages while others might think they should be based off of already existing DVZ words. One will be unable to change the other's mind.

 

Let's use "car" for an example. For the first camp the word might be "automob", coming from "automobile". The second camp may want something like "meyarborodon" (or a shorter version) meaning "self carriage". Not only will the camps not agree, they might just ignore the "official" word in favor of their own.


otakufreak40
April 8, 2014

Besides, no matter how you look at it, it's non-canon.

by otakufreak40
April 8, 2014

Besides, no matter how you look at it, it's non-canon.


Loniizrath
April 8, 2014

I personally think you guys are looking at it the wrong way. In the Skyrim setting, yes, these words wouldn't be used. But, if this is the dragon language, and dragons are immortal, then translations of modern words would be created sooner or later.

by Loniizrath
April 8, 2014

I personally think you guys are looking at it the wrong way. In the Skyrim setting, yes, these words wouldn't be used. But, if this is the dragon language, and dragons are immortal, then translations of modern words would be created sooner or later.


hiith
April 8, 2014

I believed that we were building upon the language of the game, not completely making our own. And that's kinda confusing. But, the way I see it, this kinda crosses that line.

by hiith
April 8, 2014

I believed that we were building upon the language of the game, not completely making our own. And that's kinda confusing. But, the way I see it, this kinda crosses that line.


Loniizrath
April 8, 2014

We're the largest group of people who speak this language by far. I don't see why we shouldn't make it our own.

by Loniizrath
April 8, 2014

We're the largest group of people who speak this language by far. I don't see why we shouldn't make it our own.


hiith
April 8, 2014

I guess that I just want the language to stay true to the game, and not modernized. I guess that's what it all comes down to.

by hiith
April 8, 2014

I guess that I just want the language to stay true to the game, and not modernized. I guess that's what it all comes down to.

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