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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

New Canon Grammar

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paarthurnax
Administrator
April 16, 2014

The talk of the town is about modern words, but I'd like to take a moment to share some new grammatical things I've found digging around some of the game's dialogue.

Possessive Suffix -iil

In the Dragonborn DLC, enthralled dragons will say "Zu'u ni zaamiil" after the Bend Will Shout has expired. This means "I am not your slave". There's a possibility this is a mixup on the writer's part as the only other time a possessive suffixe is used for the second person is in this line between Alduin and Sahloknir, "Ziil gro dovah ulse". This isn't "-iil" here but "Zii" with the possessive suffix "-l" because it ends with a vowel. The writer may have looked at this and thought "-iil" was a second person suffix when it's hypothetically not.

Whatever the case, a second person possessive suffix will be really useful. We do have a non-canon adjective suffix "-iil" so that will need to be changed. Any suggestions? Perhaps "-ol", "-ul", or "-iv"?

Conjugations with the suffix "-aan"

The verb suffix "-aan" is used to form past participles, perfect present tense ("Zu'u grahlaan", "I have battled"), and in some rare cases simple past tense ("Nafni wahlaan qethsegol", "Nafni raised this stone").

Something interesting happens with a verb ends with a diphthong ("aa" in particular). At the end of the game, the dragons shout "Sahrot thur qahnaraan!", "The mighty overlord is vanquished!" Here we see the past participle of "Qahnaar", "to vanquish", becomes "Qahnaraan" instead of "Qahnaaraan".

Extending this to other verbs, this new rule makes verbs that have a diphthong in the last syllable shift to a monopthong. "aa" becomes "a", "ii" becomes "i", and "uu" becomes "u". Here are some examples below:

  • Qiilaan -> Qiilanaan
  • Shaan -> Shanaan
  • Tinvaak -> Tinvakaan
  • Kriin -> Krinaan
  • Viin -> Vinaan
  • Du'ul -> Dulaan

Contractions of "Wah"

I recently came across this interesting line of dialogue spoken by Sahloknir upon being revived:

Alduin, thuri! Boaan tiid vokriiha suleyksejun kruziik?

 The dialogue file offers this translation:

 Alduin, my king (overlord)! Has the time arrived (flown) to restore (unkill) your ancient dominion (power-of-king)? 

The striking thing here is vokriiha, a verb with a hitherto unknown suffix. Oftentimes wah is cut from speech or writing when saying "to ____". I think what we're seeing here is an alternative in the form of a suffix/contraction of "wah vokrii" to make "vokriiha".

As of yet I'm not sure when this would be used as it doesn't seem to have much benefit over keeping wah in its place or dropping wah altogether, but there it is.

by paarthurnax
April 16, 2014

The talk of the town is about modern words, but I'd like to take a moment to share some new grammatical things I've found digging around some of the game's dialogue.

Possessive Suffix -iil

In the Dragonborn DLC, enthralled dragons will say "Zu'u ni zaamiil" after the Bend Will Shout has expired. This means "I am not your slave". There's a possibility this is a mixup on the writer's part as the only other time a possessive suffixe is used for the second person is in this line between Alduin and Sahloknir, "Ziil gro dovah ulse". This isn't "-iil" here but "Zii" with the possessive suffix "-l" because it ends with a vowel. The writer may have looked at this and thought "-iil" was a second person suffix when it's hypothetically not.

Whatever the case, a second person possessive suffix will be really useful. We do have a non-canon adjective suffix "-iil" so that will need to be changed. Any suggestions? Perhaps "-ol", "-ul", or "-iv"?

Conjugations with the suffix "-aan"

The verb suffix "-aan" is used to form past participles, perfect present tense ("Zu'u grahlaan", "I have battled"), and in some rare cases simple past tense ("Nafni wahlaan qethsegol", "Nafni raised this stone").

Something interesting happens with a verb ends with a diphthong ("aa" in particular). At the end of the game, the dragons shout "Sahrot thur qahnaraan!", "The mighty overlord is vanquished!" Here we see the past participle of "Qahnaar", "to vanquish", becomes "Qahnaraan" instead of "Qahnaaraan".

Extending this to other verbs, this new rule makes verbs that have a diphthong in the last syllable shift to a monopthong. "aa" becomes "a", "ii" becomes "i", and "uu" becomes "u". Here are some examples below:

  • Qiilaan -> Qiilanaan
  • Shaan -> Shanaan
  • Tinvaak -> Tinvakaan
  • Kriin -> Krinaan
  • Viin -> Vinaan
  • Du'ul -> Dulaan

Contractions of "Wah"

I recently came across this interesting line of dialogue spoken by Sahloknir upon being revived:

Alduin, thuri! Boaan tiid vokriiha suleyksejun kruziik?

 The dialogue file offers this translation:

 Alduin, my king (overlord)! Has the time arrived (flown) to restore (unkill) your ancient dominion (power-of-king)? 

The striking thing here is vokriiha, a verb with a hitherto unknown suffix. Oftentimes wah is cut from speech or writing when saying "to ____". I think what we're seeing here is an alternative in the form of a suffix/contraction of "wah vokrii" to make "vokriiha".

As of yet I'm not sure when this would be used as it doesn't seem to have much benefit over keeping wah in its place or dropping wah altogether, but there it is.


hiith
April 17, 2014

I think that the new suffix should be something really different from the others (to be easily memorable). Something like -(n)ug.

by hiith
April 17, 2014

I think that the new suffix should be something really different from the others (to be easily memorable). Something like -(n)ug.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 17, 2014

Good idea. I can't put my finger on it but I don't think "-ug" quite fits. We don't have many suffixes that end in vowels. How about "-kro"? Some example words:

  • Zooriil -> Zoorkro
  • Freiziil -> Freizkro
  • Iilahiil -> Iilahkro
  • Lovaasiil -> Lovaaskro
  • Mariil -> Maarkro
  • Ziriil -> Ziikro
by paarthurnax
April 17, 2014

Good idea. I can't put my finger on it but I don't think "-ug" quite fits. We don't have many suffixes that end in vowels. How about "-kro"? Some example words:

  • Zooriil -> Zoorkro
  • Freiziil -> Freizkro
  • Iilahiil -> Iilahkro
  • Lovaasiil -> Lovaaskro
  • Mariil -> Maarkro
  • Ziriil -> Ziikro

hiith
April 17, 2014

That sounds good, but perhaps it could have a less-used vowel.

by hiith
April 17, 2014

That sounds good, but perhaps it could have a less-used vowel.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 17, 2014

The reason I use "o" is because "-i", "-ii", and "-u" are all possessive suffixes and "ah" is a really common word ending. I suppose "-krei" or "krey" might work ("Ziikrei/Ziikrey", "Iilahkrei/Iilahkrey", "Lovaaskrei/Lovaaskrey") but right now I think I prefer "-kro".

It also ties nicely with the suffix "-om", so "Maarkro", "selfish", would turn into "Maarkrom", "selfishness". Though you could also have "Maarkrei/Maarkrey" turn into "Maarkrom".

by paarthurnax
April 17, 2014

The reason I use "o" is because "-i", "-ii", and "-u" are all possessive suffixes and "ah" is a really common word ending. I suppose "-krei" or "krey" might work ("Ziikrei/Ziikrey", "Iilahkrei/Iilahkrey", "Lovaaskrei/Lovaaskrey") but right now I think I prefer "-kro".

It also ties nicely with the suffix "-om", so "Maarkro", "selfish", would turn into "Maarkrom", "selfishness". Though you could also have "Maarkrei/Maarkrey" turn into "Maarkrom".


Foduiiz
April 17, 2014

I'm not sure I fully understand whats going on here but I can see "-kro" being very easily mistaken for '-ro', expecially in speech.

Am I right in saying we're coming up with a suffix to show second person possesion? So "your {noun}"?

EDIT: forgot square brackets transcribed text :/

by Foduiiz
April 17, 2014

I'm not sure I fully understand whats going on here but I can see "-kro" being very easily mistaken for '-ro', expecially in speech.

Am I right in saying we're coming up with a suffix to show second person possesion? So "your {noun}"?

EDIT: forgot square brackets transcribed text :/


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 17, 2014

We're coming up with a new suffix for -iil / -riil which we have used to make adjectives. Second person possession will be -iil ("Tuziil", "your blade").

by paarthurnax
April 17, 2014

We're coming up with a new suffix for -iil / -riil which we have used to make adjectives. Second person possession will be -iil ("Tuziil", "your blade").


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 17, 2014

Interestingly, the shortening of diphthongs also seems to happen with plural nouns. According to this page, the plural of "Rotmulaag" is "Rotmulagge".  Though I can't seem to find this used in-game at all, and it's possible this is specific to only this word. If not, words like "Junaar" would become "Junarre", "Kaal" "Kalle", "Kroniid" "Kronidde".

by paarthurnax
April 17, 2014

Interestingly, the shortening of diphthongs also seems to happen with plural nouns. According to this page, the plural of "Rotmulaag" is "Rotmulagge".  Though I can't seem to find this used in-game at all, and it's possible this is specific to only this word. If not, words like "Junaar" would become "Junarre", "Kaal" "Kalle", "Kroniid" "Kronidde".


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 23, 2014

We haven't decided on a new suffix to replace -iil / -riil yet so I'm going to throw out some more ideas. The two current words we'll use as examples are ziriil (spiritual) and lovaasiil (musical).

  • -kiil-kilZiikil, Lovaaskil. Probably too similar.
  • -kraav / -krav; Ziikrav, Lovaaskrav. Too complex?
  • -thri. Ziithri, Lovaasthri.
  • -vri / -ri. Ziivri, Lovaasri. Too short?
  • -vrah. Ziivrah, Lovasvrah.
  • -riig / -rig. Ziirig, Lovaasrig.
by paarthurnax
April 23, 2014

We haven't decided on a new suffix to replace -iil / -riil yet so I'm going to throw out some more ideas. The two current words we'll use as examples are ziriil (spiritual) and lovaasiil (musical).

  • -kiil-kilZiikil, Lovaaskil. Probably too similar.
  • -kraav / -krav; Ziikrav, Lovaaskrav. Too complex?
  • -thri. Ziithri, Lovaasthri.
  • -vri / -ri. Ziivri, Lovaasri. Too short?
  • -vrah. Ziivrah, Lovasvrah.
  • -riig / -rig. Ziirig, Lovaasrig.

Foduiiz
April 23, 2014

Hmm... I like -vrah. Bit long though.

Would it make sense to use fon? Since this verb means 'seem' it would describe perfectly the meaning of the suffix while not being too literal. Ziifon, Lovaasfon; Spirit-seem, Music-seem. The word connotes *similarity and a sense of (something)* which makes perfect sense when transforming a noun to an adjective. Also there're no nouns ending with fon so there would be no confusion.

by Foduiiz
April 23, 2014

Hmm... I like -vrah. Bit long though.

Would it make sense to use fon? Since this verb means 'seem' it would describe perfectly the meaning of the suffix while not being too literal. Ziifon, Lovaasfon; Spirit-seem, Music-seem. The word connotes *similarity and a sense of (something)* which makes perfect sense when transforming a noun to an adjective. Also there're no nouns ending with fon so there would be no confusion.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 24, 2014

That's a possibility too, though my preference would be for a suffix that isn't identical in spelling and meaning to an existing word. Then it's a compound word instead of a word with a suffix - which is okay as long as there's that distinction.

Going off of the compound idea, what about fron? From the canon word for "kin / related". Ziifron, related/kin to the spirit, Lovaasfron, related/kin to music, etc.

by paarthurnax
April 24, 2014

That's a possibility too, though my preference would be for a suffix that isn't identical in spelling and meaning to an existing word. Then it's a compound word instead of a word with a suffix - which is okay as long as there's that distinction.

Going off of the compound idea, what about fron? From the canon word for "kin / related". Ziifron, related/kin to the spirit, Lovaasfron, related/kin to music, etc.


Foduiiz
April 25, 2014

But the suffix shouldn't describe similar to, it should describe of or pertaining to. I still like the idea of using fon but maybe we can modify it to avoid creating compound words but still relate to the word... I'll throw a few ideas out:

 -fahn -faan -faen -fen -fuaan -fan -fo -fro

by Foduiiz
April 25, 2014

But the suffix shouldn't describe similar to, it should describe of or pertaining to. I still like the idea of using fon but maybe we can modify it to avoid creating compound words but still relate to the word... I'll throw a few ideas out:

 -fahn -faan -faen -fen -fuaan -fan -fo -fro


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 26, 2014

This is tough! I like -faan, but at the same time I feel the suffix should begin with a vowel. Maybe shorten it to -fan if a word ends with a diphthong. ZiifanLovaasfanLokfaan.

by paarthurnax
April 26, 2014

This is tough! I like -faan, but at the same time I feel the suffix should begin with a vowel. Maybe shorten it to -fan if a word ends with a diphthong. ZiifanLovaasfanLokfaan.


Foduiiz
April 27, 2014

That makes sense. I agree it should start with a vowel though. Lokfaan is awkard to pronounce and you can't simply remove the because then it would be -aan.

by Foduiiz
April 27, 2014

That makes sense. I agree it should start with a vowel though. Lokfaan is awkard to pronounce and you can't simply remove the because then it would be -aan.


yaropolk
April 29, 2014

Possessive Suffix -iil

In the Dragonborn DLC, enthralled dragons will say "Zu'u ni zaamiil" after the Bend Will Shout has expired. This means "I am not your slave". There's a possibility this is a mixup on the writer's part as the only other time a possessive suffixe is used for the second person is in this line between Alduin and Sahloknir, "Ziil gro dovah ulse". This isn't "-iil" here but "Zii" with the possessive suffix "-l" because it ends with a vowel. The writer may have looked at this and thought "-iil" was a second person suffix when it's hypothetically not.

could not be clarified. l words in all cases when a word ends in a vowel (or diphthong or monophthong)? например:

Tey  - Tale , Tey'l  (Teyiil) -My Tale 

"Zu'u ni zaamiil" - or more correctly - "zu'u ni hin zaam"?

"Ziil gro dovah ulse" - http://www.thuum.org/learn/grammar/possession.php that is, as if -Zii'l

My -i
His/Her/Its -ii
Their/Our -u
Noun ends with vowel -l

"Zu'u ni zaamiil" -  statement is true Noun ends with vowel -l , but if it ends in a consonant -iil ?

by yaropolk
April 29, 2014

Possessive Suffix -iil

In the Dragonborn DLC, enthralled dragons will say "Zu'u ni zaamiil" after the Bend Will Shout has expired. This means "I am not your slave". There's a possibility this is a mixup on the writer's part as the only other time a possessive suffixe is used for the second person is in this line between Alduin and Sahloknir, "Ziil gro dovah ulse". This isn't "-iil" here but "Zii" with the possessive suffix "-l" because it ends with a vowel. The writer may have looked at this and thought "-iil" was a second person suffix when it's hypothetically not.

could not be clarified. l words in all cases when a word ends in a vowel (or diphthong or monophthong)? например:

Tey  - Tale , Tey'l  (Teyiil) -My Tale 

"Zu'u ni zaamiil" - or more correctly - "zu'u ni hin zaam"?

"Ziil gro dovah ulse" - http://www.thuum.org/learn/grammar/possession.php that is, as if -Zii'l

My -i
His/Her/Its -ii
Their/Our -u
Noun ends with vowel -l

"Zu'u ni zaamiil" -  statement is true Noun ends with vowel -l , but if it ends in a consonant -iil ?

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