Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Duplicates

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ASTORKiT
Moderator
March 22, 2013

I've noticed there are a few duplicate words in the dictionary, such as Green and Argonian.

 

Are we removing the ones that are not Primary? Just thought I'd put that out here for everyone to see.

by ASTORKiT
March 22, 2013

I've noticed there are a few duplicate words in the dictionary, such as Green and Argonian.

 

Are we removing the ones that are not Primary? Just thought I'd put that out here for everyone to see.


paarthurnax
Administrator
March 22, 2013

You were a step ahead of me, I was going to start a thread on this as well :)

As far as I see we have two options - delete the old, non-canon words, or keep them and somehow mark that they are outdated or obsolete.  My main concern is if people have used the non-canon duplicates before in writing and try to go back and search for deleted words.  If we don't think that's a big issue, we can go ahead and delete those duplicates.

by paarthurnax
March 22, 2013

You were a step ahead of me, I was going to start a thread on this as well :)

As far as I see we have two options - delete the old, non-canon words, or keep them and somehow mark that they are outdated or obsolete.  My main concern is if people have used the non-canon duplicates before in writing and try to go back and search for deleted words.  If we don't think that's a big issue, we can go ahead and delete those duplicates.


paarthurnax
Administrator
March 22, 2013

I also want to add that "deleted words" aren't permanently deleted, they're just "unpublished" from the dictionary so to speak, so if we want to bring them back for whatever reason we can do that.

by paarthurnax
March 22, 2013

I also want to add that "deleted words" aren't permanently deleted, they're just "unpublished" from the dictionary so to speak, so if we want to bring them back for whatever reason we can do that.


ASTORKiT
Moderator
March 22, 2013

We could mark them as being a dialect? They are both equally viable, but perhaps one could be a more "human" dialect, like how we introduced "hj" ?

by ASTORKiT
March 22, 2013

We could mark them as being a dialect? They are both equally viable, but perhaps one could be a more "human" dialect, like how we introduced "hj" ?


paarthurnax
Administrator
March 22, 2013

Perhaps.  With the most recent wave of primary canon words, we're also encountering homographs: for example, we have "Zein" as "Two", but now the primary canon word "Zein" means "Worship".  I think the language is getting big enough to where these are going to start to happen, and in this case it's workable because one's a number, the other's a rather distinct noun.

by paarthurnax
March 22, 2013

Perhaps.  With the most recent wave of primary canon words, we're also encountering homographs: for example, we have "Zein" as "Two", but now the primary canon word "Zein" means "Worship".  I think the language is getting big enough to where these are going to start to happen, and in this case it's workable because one's a number, the other's a rather distinct noun.


ASTORKiT
Moderator
March 22, 2013

Agreed, in any language, there's homographs. Like lead and lead. To lead, and lead, as in the heavy element. A lot can be understood from context, i.e. if you're saying "I had two meals", "I had worship meals" doesn't really make much sense.

by ASTORKiT
March 22, 2013

Agreed, in any language, there's homographs. Like lead and lead. To lead, and lead, as in the heavy element. A lot can be understood from context, i.e. if you're saying "I had two meals", "I had worship meals" doesn't really make much sense.


ASTORKiT
Moderator
March 31, 2013

I'm going to list duplicates here as I go. Will be updated whenever.

  • Goraan and Vuthar (Primary and Quaternary) - Young

  • Jul and Mun (Both primary) - Man (Jul has the additional meaning of Mankind / Humans)

  • Jurn and Kriist (Quaternary and Primary) - Stand

  •  

by ASTORKiT
March 31, 2013

I'm going to list duplicates here as I go. Will be updated whenever.

  • Goraan and Vuthar (Primary and Quaternary) - Young

  • Jul and Mun (Both primary) - Man (Jul has the additional meaning of Mankind / Humans)

  • Jurn and Kriist (Quaternary and Primary) - Stand

  •  


paarthurnax
Administrator
March 31, 2013
ASTORKiT

I'm going to list duplicates here as I go. Will be updated whenever

Good idea.  Off the top of my head I can add:

  • Jud and Jiin (Primary and Quaternary) - Queen​

For a lot of these we can just default to the canon word.  I can clarify for Jul and Mun, "Jul" means "Mankind" as a whole while "Mun" is a singular person, so "Man has always fought with Mer" would use "Jul", but "A man is fighting in the tavern" would use "Mun".

by paarthurnax
March 31, 2013
ASTORKiT

I'm going to list duplicates here as I go. Will be updated whenever

Good idea.  Off the top of my head I can add:

  • Jud and Jiin (Primary and Quaternary) - Queen​

For a lot of these we can just default to the canon word.  I can clarify for Jul and Mun, "Jul" means "Mankind" as a whole while "Mun" is a singular person, so "Man has always fought with Mer" would use "Jul", but "A man is fighting in the tavern" would use "Mun".


RedCartographer
April 10, 2013

"Home" has three different entries, each are different. One actually refers to "Home Land" it's a little confusing to be honest.

by RedCartographer
April 10, 2013

"Home" has three different entries, each are different. One actually refers to "Home Land" it's a little confusing to be honest.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 10, 2013

What's happened in most of these situations is that someone created a word before we discovered there was already a canon word for it.  In this case, the definitions for the non-canon words were altered to give them slightly different meanings or connotations.  We can discuss what we'd like to do with these as well to avoid this confusion (delete, edit definitions more, etc.)

by paarthurnax
April 10, 2013

What's happened in most of these situations is that someone created a word before we discovered there was already a canon word for it.  In this case, the definitions for the non-canon words were altered to give them slightly different meanings or connotations.  We can discuss what we'd like to do with these as well to avoid this confusion (delete, edit definitions more, etc.)


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 17, 2013

Another duplicate:

Any consensus on what do with these words?  We could delete them, but my concern would be that older writing that uses them might end up untranslatable.

by paarthurnax
April 17, 2013

Another duplicate:

Any consensus on what do with these words?  We could delete them, but my concern would be that older writing that uses them might end up untranslatable.


Myufi
April 17, 2013

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.

by Myufi
April 17, 2013

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.


Beastly Iguana
April 17, 2013
Myufi

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.

Yeah, I'm for this idea. 

by Beastly Iguana
April 17, 2013
Myufi

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.

Yeah, I'm for this idea. 


scrptrx
April 21, 2013
Myufi

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.

I also agree. Dragon is not really a language that will have lots of borrowed words and word-roots. Maybe some, but not many (like a word for horker, Nord, beer, or whatever, may derive from a human word). English has too many words that mean the exact same thing because of its multiple roots, so there's no reason to have non-canon duplicates in a limited-root Dragon language.

by scrptrx
April 21, 2013
Myufi

I'd like to request the deletion of non-canon repeated words, before a whole lot of people begin to use them mistakenly. We could make a page on its own listing removed words, but I'd like them out of the dictionary for less clutter.

I also agree. Dragon is not really a language that will have lots of borrowed words and word-roots. Maybe some, but not many (like a word for horker, Nord, beer, or whatever, may derive from a human word). English has too many words that mean the exact same thing because of its multiple roots, so there's no reason to have non-canon duplicates in a limited-root Dragon language.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 21, 2013

I will get right on this then.  At the same time, I might make a page of deleted words too so if people come across an older word they can't find, they can look there.

Edit: From now on, then, post any duplicates you find in this thread.  Duplicates being multiple Dovahzul words for an English word in which they have no apparent difference in meaning, and/or one of them is canon and the other isn't.

by paarthurnax
April 21, 2013

I will get right on this then.  At the same time, I might make a page of deleted words too so if people come across an older word they can't find, they can look there.

Edit: From now on, then, post any duplicates you find in this thread.  Duplicates being multiple Dovahzul words for an English word in which they have no apparent difference in meaning, and/or one of them is canon and the other isn't.

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