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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

"-dahk" Suffix Proposal

 1 

paarthurnax
Administrator
April 21, 2013

"-dahk" is a suffix that is used very often to form a noun from a verb.  Examples include "Yahndahk", "Kirdahk", "Ruundahk",  "Vinaldahk", etc.

While it works, I feel like it could be better.  I would like to propose that "-dahk" be reduced to simply "-d" to transform verbs into nouns, and "-ak" if the verb ends in something like "d" or t".  With this, we would get "Yahnd", "Kird", "Ruundak", "Vinald", etc.

I feel like this would really help streamline the language further.  "-d" doesn't conflict with any other suffixes except for "-iik / -d" where "-d" is only used if the verb ends in a vowel.  In this case we could have "-nd"  instead of "-d" for the original "-dahk/-ahk".

For example, "Gemoro" ("glorify") would become "Gemorond" ("glorification") while "Gemorod" would mean "glorifier"/"someone who glorifies".

Thoughts?

by paarthurnax
April 21, 2013

"-dahk" is a suffix that is used very often to form a noun from a verb.  Examples include "Yahndahk", "Kirdahk", "Ruundahk",  "Vinaldahk", etc.

While it works, I feel like it could be better.  I would like to propose that "-dahk" be reduced to simply "-d" to transform verbs into nouns, and "-ak" if the verb ends in something like "d" or t".  With this, we would get "Yahnd", "Kird", "Ruundak", "Vinald", etc.

I feel like this would really help streamline the language further.  "-d" doesn't conflict with any other suffixes except for "-iik / -d" where "-d" is only used if the verb ends in a vowel.  In this case we could have "-nd"  instead of "-d" for the original "-dahk/-ahk".

For example, "Gemoro" ("glorify") would become "Gemorond" ("glorification") while "Gemorod" would mean "glorifier"/"someone who glorifies".

Thoughts?


scrptrx
April 21, 2013

I guess what I'd be most worried about is confusion with other words, not so much other suffixes. Like you'd have to make sure there are no other words that match what would be the new words you list above:

Kird, Ruund, Vinald, etc.

I do like what seems to be a trend of verbs ending with a T. Unt, Grunt, Funt...

Do most nouns end in D? No, but some do. MANY nouns end in a K, though.

But as a suffix modifying a verb to become a noun.... I think it'd be necessary to comtemplate the "rules" that go along with the grammar. How believable is it that V-to-N conversation either just needs a (d)ahk added, or either a D or an AK? It's plenty believable... BUT, that kind of grammatical rule does not occur in English.... I don't think?

Also, not many words end in AK as opposed to AAK or AHK.

by scrptrx
April 21, 2013

I guess what I'd be most worried about is confusion with other words, not so much other suffixes. Like you'd have to make sure there are no other words that match what would be the new words you list above:

Kird, Ruund, Vinald, etc.

I do like what seems to be a trend of verbs ending with a T. Unt, Grunt, Funt...

Do most nouns end in D? No, but some do. MANY nouns end in a K, though.

But as a suffix modifying a verb to become a noun.... I think it'd be necessary to comtemplate the "rules" that go along with the grammar. How believable is it that V-to-N conversation either just needs a (d)ahk added, or either a D or an AK? It's plenty believable... BUT, that kind of grammatical rule does not occur in English.... I don't think?

Also, not many words end in AK as opposed to AAK or AHK.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 21, 2013

Not necessarily equivalent, but many English suffixes are short.  Plural is "-s", past tense is "-t" or "-d".  That said, this is its own language, so there being a direct English equivalent isn't necessary either.  In my opinion "-dahk" is a bit too complicated/messy.  The words that include "-dahk" right now are fairly unique, so there would be little to no conflict in ending them with "-ak", "-d", or "-nd".

by paarthurnax
April 21, 2013

Not necessarily equivalent, but many English suffixes are short.  Plural is "-s", past tense is "-t" or "-d".  That said, this is its own language, so there being a direct English equivalent isn't necessary either.  In my opinion "-dahk" is a bit too complicated/messy.  The words that include "-dahk" right now are fairly unique, so there would be little to no conflict in ending them with "-ak", "-d", or "-nd".


scrptrx
April 21, 2013

Ok, so just looking at my own submissions...

Fahntahk would become Fahnt + ak = Fahntak ?

Krizahk, Kriz + ak = Krizak

other words....

Ahlon (relate) + d = relation (replacing Ahlondahk)

Ahlond (relation) + ein = relationship (replacing Ahlondahkein)

 

ok, I kind of like it. 

by scrptrx
April 21, 2013

Ok, so just looking at my own submissions...

Fahntahk would become Fahnt + ak = Fahntak ?

Krizahk, Kriz + ak = Krizak

other words....

Ahlon (relate) + d = relation (replacing Ahlondahk)

Ahlond (relation) + ein = relationship (replacing Ahlondahkein)

 

ok, I kind of like it. 


RedCartographer
April 21, 2013

There's a point you cross where you re-invent the language and it can move further away from what it originally was or potentially it can make it better. However the thing of that is how close to cannon do we wish to stay? If some one playing skyrim comes to this site to know what a word is or try to translate a word wall for the fun of it; will the change ultimately make that impossible? My opinion is perhaps it's better not to touch it and make it absolutely official. Perhaps make it into a slang form rather than the proper form without deviating so much that we've really just created a dialect of the dragon language rather than actually expanding the language.

by RedCartographer
April 21, 2013

There's a point you cross where you re-invent the language and it can move further away from what it originally was or potentially it can make it better. However the thing of that is how close to cannon do we wish to stay? If some one playing skyrim comes to this site to know what a word is or try to translate a word wall for the fun of it; will the change ultimately make that impossible? My opinion is perhaps it's better not to touch it and make it absolutely official. Perhaps make it into a slang form rather than the proper form without deviating so much that we've really just created a dialect of the dragon language rather than actually expanding the language.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 21, 2013

To that point, "-dahk" isn't entirely canon, it's only basis is in the word "Jeydahk", "confusion".  So, if we were to change it, we would call "Jeydahk" an exception, and the rest of the canon would be untouched.  That said, I understand the need for consistency.

by paarthurnax
April 21, 2013

To that point, "-dahk" isn't entirely canon, it's only basis is in the word "Jeydahk", "confusion".  So, if we were to change it, we would call "Jeydahk" an exception, and the rest of the canon would be untouched.  That said, I understand the need for consistency.


RedCartographer
April 21, 2013

Ah okay I understand now. Thank you for clarifying. 

Naal hin onikaan

by RedCartographer
April 21, 2013

Ah okay I understand now. Thank you for clarifying. 

Naal hin onikaan


Chevvy
April 22, 2013

I don't know but for some reason i like the suffix "-dahk" more than a simple "-d".
In my opinion it looks, sounds and fits more to the dragon language.

 

except for "-iid / -d" where "-d" is only used if the verb ends in a vowel.  

wasn't it "-iik/-d" – or did I miss something?

by Chevvy
April 22, 2013

I don't know but for some reason i like the suffix "-dahk" more than a simple "-d".
In my opinion it looks, sounds and fits more to the dragon language.

 

except for "-iid / -d" where "-d" is only used if the verb ends in a vowel.  

wasn't it "-iik/-d" – or did I miss something?


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 22, 2013

Krosis, it is "-iik/-d", just a typo.  Fixed.

by paarthurnax
April 22, 2013

Krosis, it is "-iik/-d", just a typo.  Fixed.


Myufi
April 22, 2013

-dahk seems extremely clumsy to me. I do appreciate the new suffixes -ak and -nd. -d is already used, so I think -nd is more suitable. 

by Myufi
April 22, 2013

-dahk seems extremely clumsy to me. I do appreciate the new suffixes -ak and -nd. -d is already used, so I think -nd is more suitable. 


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 22, 2013

The problem with "-nd" is that it doesn't work with most consonants like "-d" does.  Could it be "-nd"/"-end" in that case?

Ahlon -> Ahlond
Kir -> Kirnd/Kirend
Vinal -> Vinalend
Gemoro -> Gemorond
Fahnt -> Fahntend
Kriz -> Krizend

by paarthurnax
April 22, 2013

The problem with "-nd" is that it doesn't work with most consonants like "-d" does.  Could it be "-nd"/"-end" in that case?

Ahlon -> Ahlond
Kir -> Kirnd/Kirend
Vinal -> Vinalend
Gemoro -> Gemorond
Fahnt -> Fahntend
Kriz -> Krizend


Myufi
April 23, 2013

I thought we had intended to use -ak, but it seems as though -end and -nd works well, so I lack objections to that.

by Myufi
April 23, 2013

I thought we had intended to use -ak, but it seems as though -end and -nd works well, so I lack objections to that.

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