MATH

             5:14

 

P4 HI LOS KUNSEL2N       

LOH3M TOL W4L1N NAU 4ROL NIS VONUN

             5:15

NEH G2N RIS YOLT1S REZMOR KO G7VOH   

NUZ KO LOK VOLKN3R       

4RK N3 DU VOKUN KO P4 HOFK3N

             5:16

D1R VEN HI DRUN KUN3L W4 MUZ

FUL NUST KOR1V HIN PRUZ4 W4L1N

4RK OFAN MORO W4 HIN BORM4SELOK

The Bible is the most influential book in the world. It's the world's all-time bestseller, and practically every linguistic community has a translation of it.

Are we planning to ever translate (some part of) the Bible to Dovahzul?

It's an idea that's floated around but never really been pursued. The Bible would be a particular challenge due to the style of langauge involved and the sheer number of foreign names.

Style? Yes, perhaps, although I'm inclined to consider Dovahzul timeless and archaic enough in itself.

What difficulty is there in foreign names? I would just take the oldest known pronunciation and spell it as if in runes, such that e.g. Jesus -> Yeshuah. I've yet to come across names that wouldn't work this way.

I'm more concerned about theological vocabulary. "Hell" couldn't just be "Oblivion" here. All of this is a thought experiment of course, as the effort would be way too big.

paarthurnax

It's an idea that's floated around but never really been pursued. The Bible would be a particular challenge due to the style of langauge involved and the sheer number of foreign names.

Style of language: We'll just use our own style. Same book either way, right?

Foreign names: Easy. Just write them as they would be written in Dovahzul. Something like

Freymulaar

Style? Yes, perhaps, although I'm inclined to consider Dovahzul timeless and archaic enough in itself.

What difficulty is there in foreign names? I would just take the oldest known pronunciation and spell it as if in runes, such that e.g. Jesus -> Yeshuah. I've yet to come across names that wouldn't work this way.

I'm more concerned about theological vocabulary. "Hell" couldn't just be "Oblivion" here. All of this is a thought experiment of course, as the effort would be way too big.

Well, the word oblivion could work, because when your dealing with another language there aren't always translations for everyword, and since Hell does not exist in Dovahzul (coming from the old germanic-english word hel), you would have to replace it with a word that is a close description or meaning. Oblivion works because it describes a place of forgotten souls, but other words that could work are Volok (underworld), or perhaps even somethimg like Faal Volbur-Nor (The Chaos-Land. I don't know if this is correct, I'm still a bit new.) These are just some speculations, but a lot of languages don't always have direct translations. For example, in english we still call the Jewish Torah by it's Hebrew name ( I think), so in Dovahzul you could also just use the word Hell but spell it like a dragon would pronounce it, which would probably be Hel.

I thought about this a while back when I was first starting Dovahzul and actually tried my hand at John 1:1-5 to see how I could wrestle with the concepts.  I actually chose John because of its really interesting and style in comparison to the other gospels. 

As far as significant names, I chose Rotmulaag for 'the Word' (meaning Jesus) and Mulgeinne for 'God' because the Dovahzul rah probably isn't the most appropriate translation.  I was going back to the Hebrew Elohim for the creator God "Strong One" in these translation choices (which is also pluralized in Hebrew).   I tried to keep Dovahzul grammar distinct from a more English-based translation to really explore how to express the meaning, rather than just code an English message. 

I would definitely be interested in being part of a translation project.  Anybody want to work on a collaboration to figure out how to express important concepts and then prioritize work on different sections or books that are interesting to us?  Feel free to private message me.  This is what I started with:

1 Ko gon faal Rotmulaag,

Ahrk faal Rotmulaag voth Mulgeinne,

Ahrk faal Rotmulaag lost Mulgeinne.

2 Rok voth Mulgeinne ko gon.

3 Zeim mok Mulgeinne drey wahlaan pah.

Vothni mok nid meyz nol Mulgeinne wahlaan.

4 Ko mok laas ahrk laas kun pah jul.

5 Laas kun ko vulom ahrk vulom ni lokiigaan nii.

@Freymulaar I think that could be a great idea, but you have to consider what an immense project it would be. It's not as simple as translating from English. For instance, there are four completely different Hebrew words that are all translated into Latin as "to know". Add in the fact that the Bible was originally written in several different languages from different cultures and times, and you've got yourself a humongous project. While this may be a worthy cause in general , it does not appear to be currently feasable. I could see a collection of special passages though. For instance, I always liked "Do not sin in your anger. Do not let the sun set while you are still angry." Alternatively, a translated version of the nativity story could be fun for Christmastime. Personally, I have considered translating the Havamal from the Poetic Edda, once I am more skilled with Dovahzul.

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@Felniir Ahvus  A thought about your translation for 'God': What if you translated 'Father-God' which is 'Bormah-Rah' or maybe 'Bormahrah' or 'Bormaarah'. It fits both languages because the Dov refer to the chief god as Bormah/Father, and many people call God 'Father'. (For instance, "Dear Father in Heaven," as the beginning to a prayer.) Just a thought. Also, you could use a translation such as "The Eternal Word" to refer to Jesus, so as to disambiguate Him from the Rotmulaagge used in Shouts.

@Cinnamon Tiger, I think some of the translation choices could definitely be different in different places.  For example, you pointed out how there's different terms for knowing, and the same is true for different types of love.  In English these get compressed, but it wouldn't have to be that way for Dovahzul.  I think it would be a possible project if people were interested in delegating the work and doing research about the cultural context for specific books and then coming together to coordinate major translation decisions for concepts that would recur throughout the collected books for consistency.

I... have no words to describe how awesome this is.

It's a good idea, but there are some distinct problems. Would we rewrite it word-by-word? This would be ignoring the dovahzul grammar, etc. If we wrote it in our draconicly awesome way, that would be fundamentally changing it. Either way, it's not the greatest. However, in my opinion, it needs to be done. I might be able to do at least some of it...? I don't own the bible, but that's why I have the internet, and there might be some problems regarding words. Dovahzul doesn't have all the words used, and we might have to do some community invention. However, I suggest making this an ongoing project, assigning volunteers chapters. I could help with the organization, if completely neccesary. Maybe. I have homework, and all.

Dinhaalvut

Would we rewrite it word-by-word?

No, it aught to be translated by meanings, as these things are. The books of the Bible weren't originally in English, and there are many different English translations of the Bible. It would be best (but difficult) to study the meanings of the original texts (in Hebrew and Greek and whatnot) and translate it by those.

This would be ignoring the dovahzul grammar, etc. If we wrote it in our draconicly awesome way, that would be fundamentally changing it.

No, it wouldn't be. It's not like the word structure of the Bible is fundamentally sacred (whether you're religious or not). People who read it in the Dragon Tongue aught to be able to understand it, and that means following Draconic grammar, though it isn't too much different from English.

Either way, it's not the greatest.

How can neither of the two options be the greatest option? It's not tie, is it? I'm genuinely confused.

However, I suggest making this an ongoing project, assigning volunteers chapters.

That's pretty much how it's going to have to be. Projects like this are often talked about, but never done. It would require great communication and a bit of community between those involved (we who worked on the non-canon Memrise course were communicating via Google Hangouts the entire construction).

Cinnamon Tiger

@Felniir Ahvus  A thought about your translation for 'God': What if you translated 'Father-God' which is 'Bormah-Rah' or maybe 'Bormahrah' or 'Bormaarah'. It fits both languages because the Dov refer to the chief god as Bormah/Father, and many people call God 'Father'. (For instance, "Dear Father in Heaven," as the beginning to a prayer.)

I'd argure that just rah would be sufficient for the word "God". But as far as the word "father" (being a difference between the man who begat you and a religious "Father"), bormah could just be used as the biological father as thur or thuri could be used to express the spiritual Father because it bears an almost identical meaning.

hiith

I'd argure that just rah would be sufficient for the word "God".

For me, "Rah" works perfectly, but for some people it's too close to "Ra" the Egyptian Deity. Depending on cultural/spiritual background, this could be an issue.  It's not an issue for me, but some prefer not to feel as though they are invoking a deity of a different pantheon than their own.