Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Dovahzul Unicode?

 1 

Dolroheim
April 14, 2015

So I have noticed the font for Dovahzul almost... isn't really Dovahzul. I don't know a whole lot about coding, but is there a way someone could make Dovahzul characters with their own unicode value? And then maybe create a downloadable keyboard that remaps certain keys to Dovahzul runes? (For example you can change your keyboard to a Spanish keyboard in your computer's settings so that the ; key types ñ instead.) That way you would actually be typing in Dovahzul instead of the Latin-based English alphabet disguised as Dovahzul. Again, I don't know if this is possible and I don't know that much about it, but if it is possible I guess it's a project idea for anyone who feels like taking it on.

by Dolroheim
April 14, 2015

So I have noticed the font for Dovahzul almost... isn't really Dovahzul. I don't know a whole lot about coding, but is there a way someone could make Dovahzul characters with their own unicode value? And then maybe create a downloadable keyboard that remaps certain keys to Dovahzul runes? (For example you can change your keyboard to a Spanish keyboard in your computer's settings so that the ; key types ñ instead.) That way you would actually be typing in Dovahzul instead of the Latin-based English alphabet disguised as Dovahzul. Again, I don't know if this is possible and I don't know that much about it, but if it is possible I guess it's a project idea for anyone who feels like taking it on.


matjojo
April 19, 2015

Im pretty sure you cant make your own unicode mappings, you could download the font i think, but then every letter would be replaced:P

 

(does anyone know where to download the font?)

by matjojo
April 19, 2015

Im pretty sure you cant make your own unicode mappings, you could download the font i think, but then every letter would be replaced:P

 

(does anyone know where to download the font?)


Dolroheim
April 19, 2015
matjojo

Im pretty sure you cant make your own unicode mappings, you could download the font i think, but then every letter would be replaced:P

 

(does anyone know where to download the font?)

http://thuum.org/library.php

by Dolroheim
April 19, 2015
matjojo

Im pretty sure you cant make your own unicode mappings, you could download the font i think, but then every letter would be replaced:P

 

(does anyone know where to download the font?)

http://thuum.org/library.php


Szasdragon
August 11, 2015

Don't mix fonts with glyphs. Glyph is a graphical represantation letters, ponctuations, numbers and symbols. Font is style of glyphs.
I also fall in this pit, but read some documents and the unicode standard, this is my answer:

  • In early age of computer science, some people make agrement, how code english letters, numbers, punctations and symbols in to 8 bit. This is the ASCII table with 256 symbol. This was enough english users. After that another nations come and said: "We want to use our letters! We don't want strugle with only 256 symbol. Think on the thousands of china and japan kanji!" After that every nation invent their ASCII table, and the thing was blow up. Computers can't render properly foregin texts. Sorry, I have to compress the story. You must include all character table to all machine to keep text's meaning and don't get a lot question mark character instead of the script. And font makers, have seriusly consider wich table they will use. Unicode Consortium founded to clean this mess. 
  • Glyph is graphic representation like A, B, 2, 8, @, #, ? ect.
  • Font is gliph's style A is A but different style in Arial, Helvetica, Couriel ect. How you move the pen or how decorate it or how stroke it?
  • Unicode standard is for text represantion in computers. Computers only know binary codes, but its meaningless for them how we use the code. The consortium try catalogising every glyphs which use, used and invented artificaly (science notations, sound notations ect.). They try make a solution to render texts same as they should be. Some glyps used by more nations, some used by just one, some have multiple meaning by specific terms. It isn't easy task. We can't include our runes, just because we want.

Sad example my old hungarian script. It was forgotten for centuries, but refounded by researchers and enthusiasts. But partes were formed, and disagree eachother. Unicode Consortium refused accepting application, becouse there are multiple instacles about alphabet (some based on damaged or wrong spelled texts, some upgraded over time, and contain things which don't existed in original artefacts). Since there is a dogfight over the script. If we want anything, we have to agree (include the inventors of language).
My opinion is: find the best spech represantions in unicode tables for every dovah runes. And construck fonts wich use these points. After that every dovah text will be seen as have to be.
In another forum thread, somebody strugling about how place extra runes on the numbers. In my sight he/she try fit these letters in a decent and closed ASCII table, wich hasn't got any spare space. Think of that: 26 english letter against 34 dovah runes. 25 lettter is same. 1 free place (C) against 9 diphtongs (AA, AH, EI, EY, II, IR, OO, UU, UR). Numbers can be use as letters, but if the user want type numbers? In USA devices have ANSI keyboard (104 keys), in europe most of nations use ISO keyboards (105 keys). In my case my hungarian keyboard have Á, É, Í, Ó, Ö, Ü, Å° keys which I can spend to the diphtongs, maybe the shift key plus these have enough room.
I don't say you can't "paint over" your keyboard, but recently all font try to do this, and with a very unconfortable method.
Sorry I'm not expert, just read some document in topic. Cheshe I have to type this twice, becouse the system logme out while I construct sentences. When I peressed the submit button it said me, I was auto-loged out and the message also losed. :-O

by Szasdragon
August 11, 2015

Don't mix fonts with glyphs. Glyph is a graphical represantation letters, ponctuations, numbers and symbols. Font is style of glyphs.
I also fall in this pit, but read some documents and the unicode standard, this is my answer:

  • In early age of computer science, some people make agrement, how code english letters, numbers, punctations and symbols in to 8 bit. This is the ASCII table with 256 symbol. This was enough english users. After that another nations come and said: "We want to use our letters! We don't want strugle with only 256 symbol. Think on the thousands of china and japan kanji!" After that every nation invent their ASCII table, and the thing was blow up. Computers can't render properly foregin texts. Sorry, I have to compress the story. You must include all character table to all machine to keep text's meaning and don't get a lot question mark character instead of the script. And font makers, have seriusly consider wich table they will use. Unicode Consortium founded to clean this mess. 
  • Glyph is graphic representation like A, B, 2, 8, @, #, ? ect.
  • Font is gliph's style A is A but different style in Arial, Helvetica, Couriel ect. How you move the pen or how decorate it or how stroke it?
  • Unicode standard is for text represantion in computers. Computers only know binary codes, but its meaningless for them how we use the code. The consortium try catalogising every glyphs which use, used and invented artificaly (science notations, sound notations ect.). They try make a solution to render texts same as they should be. Some glyps used by more nations, some used by just one, some have multiple meaning by specific terms. It isn't easy task. We can't include our runes, just because we want.

Sad example my old hungarian script. It was forgotten for centuries, but refounded by researchers and enthusiasts. But partes were formed, and disagree eachother. Unicode Consortium refused accepting application, becouse there are multiple instacles about alphabet (some based on damaged or wrong spelled texts, some upgraded over time, and contain things which don't existed in original artefacts). Since there is a dogfight over the script. If we want anything, we have to agree (include the inventors of language).
My opinion is: find the best spech represantions in unicode tables for every dovah runes. And construck fonts wich use these points. After that every dovah text will be seen as have to be.
In another forum thread, somebody strugling about how place extra runes on the numbers. In my sight he/she try fit these letters in a decent and closed ASCII table, wich hasn't got any spare space. Think of that: 26 english letter against 34 dovah runes. 25 lettter is same. 1 free place (C) against 9 diphtongs (AA, AH, EI, EY, II, IR, OO, UU, UR). Numbers can be use as letters, but if the user want type numbers? In USA devices have ANSI keyboard (104 keys), in europe most of nations use ISO keyboards (105 keys). In my case my hungarian keyboard have Á, É, Í, Ó, Ö, Ü, Å° keys which I can spend to the diphtongs, maybe the shift key plus these have enough room.
I don't say you can't "paint over" your keyboard, but recently all font try to do this, and with a very unconfortable method.
Sorry I'm not expert, just read some document in topic. Cheshe I have to type this twice, becouse the system logme out while I construct sentences. When I peressed the submit button it said me, I was auto-loged out and the message also losed. :-O


Dolroheim
August 18, 2015
Szasdragon

Don't mix fonts with glyphs. Glyph is a graphical represantation letters, ponctuations, numbers and symbols. Font is style of glyphs.
 

Thanks for the essay. I understand that fonts and glyphs are not the same thing. I was just wondering if it was possible to map Dovahzul glyphs to their own table or whatever. So we could write Dovahzul characters with their own fonts, instead of using a font to disguise english glyphs as Dovahzul runes. From what I pulled from your (not so) little article there, the short answer is no, because it looks like (from what I understand) we would have to submit our alphabet to the unicode company to be accepted and mapped, and even if we could they would likely decline since it is a conlang.

by Dolroheim
August 18, 2015
Szasdragon

Don't mix fonts with glyphs. Glyph is a graphical represantation letters, ponctuations, numbers and symbols. Font is style of glyphs.
 

Thanks for the essay. I understand that fonts and glyphs are not the same thing. I was just wondering if it was possible to map Dovahzul glyphs to their own table or whatever. So we could write Dovahzul characters with their own fonts, instead of using a font to disguise english glyphs as Dovahzul runes. From what I pulled from your (not so) little article there, the short answer is no, because it looks like (from what I understand) we would have to submit our alphabet to the unicode company to be accepted and mapped, and even if we could they would likely decline since it is a conlang.


Szasdragon
September 1, 2015

Yeah, the full unicode standard purpose is based on worldwide agrements. We can use unicode with many font, but in accord.

by Szasdragon
September 1, 2015

Yeah, the full unicode standard purpose is based on worldwide agrements. We can use unicode with many font, but in accord.


Tamashii
September 4, 2015
Szasdragon

In another forum thread, somebody strugling about how place extra runes on the numbers. In my sight he/she try fit these letters in a decent and closed ASCII table, wich hasn't got any spare space. Think of that: 26 english letter against 34 dovah runes. 25 lettter is same. 1 free place (C) against 9 diphtongs (AA, AH, EI, EY, II, IR, OO, UU, UR). Numbers can be use as letters, but if the user want type numbers? In USA devices have ANSI keyboard (104 keys), in europe most of nations use ISO keyboards (105 keys). In my case my hungarian keyboard have Á, É, Í, Ó, Ö, Ü, Å° keys which I can spend to the diphtongs, maybe the shift key plus these have enough room.
I don't say you can't "paint over" your keyboard, but recently all font try to do this, and with a very unconfortable method.

With the Japanese Kana input keyboard, you just use the numpad to type numbers. I think that would work quite well. That way, you could still use the standard number key row for the diphtongs.... Not trying to find a loophole, I just happen to use the Kana keyboard a lot.

by Tamashii
September 4, 2015
Szasdragon

In another forum thread, somebody strugling about how place extra runes on the numbers. In my sight he/she try fit these letters in a decent and closed ASCII table, wich hasn't got any spare space. Think of that: 26 english letter against 34 dovah runes. 25 lettter is same. 1 free place (C) against 9 diphtongs (AA, AH, EI, EY, II, IR, OO, UU, UR). Numbers can be use as letters, but if the user want type numbers? In USA devices have ANSI keyboard (104 keys), in europe most of nations use ISO keyboards (105 keys). In my case my hungarian keyboard have Á, É, Í, Ó, Ö, Ü, Å° keys which I can spend to the diphtongs, maybe the shift key plus these have enough room.
I don't say you can't "paint over" your keyboard, but recently all font try to do this, and with a very unconfortable method.

With the Japanese Kana input keyboard, you just use the numpad to type numbers. I think that would work quite well. That way, you could still use the standard number key row for the diphtongs.... Not trying to find a loophole, I just happen to use the Kana keyboard a lot.

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