Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

BRING BACK THE OLD TRANSLATOR

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Lord Dovah
June 19, 2016
Frinmulaar
I doubt you can check the legacy translator's output by reversing the process. You type "I like Skyrim" Out comes "Zu'u med Keizaal" Back to English "I like Skyrim" No mistakes, right? Wrong. "Zu'u med Keizaal" is a completely different thing from what you are trying to say. I can think of one solution that should satisfy both crowds. Have the translator output copyable text in the target language, but whenever a word/phrase has multiple interpretations, show it in a different color and offer a dropdown menu with all alternatives and their definitions. You could even check neighboring words to guess which one to show first.

That is an excellent idea.

by Lord Dovah
June 19, 2016
Frinmulaar
I doubt you can check the legacy translator's output by reversing the process. You type "I like Skyrim" Out comes "Zu'u med Keizaal" Back to English "I like Skyrim" No mistakes, right? Wrong. "Zu'u med Keizaal" is a completely different thing from what you are trying to say. I can think of one solution that should satisfy both crowds. Have the translator output copyable text in the target language, but whenever a word/phrase has multiple interpretations, show it in a different color and offer a dropdown menu with all alternatives and their definitions. You could even check neighboring words to guess which one to show first.

That is an excellent idea.


Ruvgein
August 9, 2016

When I'm on this site and I see a lot of things writen in Dovahzul I look to see if I recognize any words, then after that I put it thru the Legacy Translator so I know what's being said in enough time to reply or still have it be relevant.  Nothing wrong with the new one, it just takes too long for this purpose.  And I think that's how the others that aren't very good at the language would use it too.

by Ruvgein
August 9, 2016

When I'm on this site and I see a lot of things writen in Dovahzul I look to see if I recognize any words, then after that I put it thru the Legacy Translator so I know what's being said in enough time to reply or still have it be relevant.  Nothing wrong with the new one, it just takes too long for this purpose.  And I think that's how the others that aren't very good at the language would use it too.


Bokreinmah
August 10, 2016

There is but one way to describe the new translator; Nii los aan sahlo wahl fin. Fin vokrii tinvaak los sahlo wahl, nuz daar los dii mindol. Til los nid rot fah "new" uv "tool," ahrk tol rahgron zu'u. Zu'u dreh ni haalvut smoliin fah nii.

(Took me way too long to translate all that using the new translator, whereas the old one would've had that done (inaccurately) in much less time. Perhaps combine the best features of both? Perhaps give us both the Dovahzul translation akin to the old translator and the new click/hover translation that the new translator gives us?)

 

by Bokreinmah
August 10, 2016

There is but one way to describe the new translator; Nii los aan sahlo wahl fin. Fin vokrii tinvaak los sahlo wahl, nuz daar los dii mindol. Til los nid rot fah "new" uv "tool," ahrk tol rahgron zu'u. Zu'u dreh ni haalvut smoliin fah nii.

(Took me way too long to translate all that using the new translator, whereas the old one would've had that done (inaccurately) in much less time. Perhaps combine the best features of both? Perhaps give us both the Dovahzul translation akin to the old translator and the new click/hover translation that the new translator gives us?)

 


Temeraire
September 21, 2016
paarthurnax

The issue I'm trying to illustrate is that the people who want a quick and easy translation will unfortunately get an incorrect translation. Checking the translator with itself isn't really a good way of verifying that a translation is correct.

Here's an example. Let's say I want to translate:

This is what the Legacy Translator gives me:

Converting it back to English with the translator, we get:

Pretty much the same as what we put in, right? However, there are several major mistakes someone who only uses the translator would never spot. Let's go through the translated sentence and see what those mistakes are.

To start, "to go on" is an English expression that means "to happen". A word-for-word translation here does not work at all in the dragon language, for the same reason you'd be confused if I told you in English "Peace fire sky".

Second, med means "like or similar to" (as in "like a dragon"), not "to like something". We have a similar problem with lost "have", which is only used to form verb tense ("have fought") and never in the sense of "to have something". English words with double meanings are a nightmare for the Legacy Translator because nothing would seem to be wrong if you used the translator to convert it back to English.

This is just one example. The issues are greatly compounded when the Legacy Translator is used for casual things like chat.

What would a good translation look like? I might say: Drem yol lok, bo paaz? Laan hi tinvaak do rotuniik? Literally, this is "Peace fire sky (greetings), flying fair (is all well)? Do you want speech about the translator?"

You may notice this looks nothing like the original text, and that's true. Genuine Dovahzul is very different from colloquial English, which is why the Legacy Translator is so bad. The translations made by the Legacy Translator aren't Dovahzul, they're just English with different words.

The new translator has some really neat features that allow for phrases like "What's going on?" to be translated into "Bo paaz?" and for words with double meanings to be distinguished. Suggestions for new phrases and translations will go a long way towards making the translator more complete and usable.

Wow, I didn't realize how in-depth we were taking this language (here I thought we were just making up words to replace English words). Looks like I’m actually going to have to look at this a little deeper (since its an awesome subject).

by Temeraire
September 21, 2016
paarthurnax

The issue I'm trying to illustrate is that the people who want a quick and easy translation will unfortunately get an incorrect translation. Checking the translator with itself isn't really a good way of verifying that a translation is correct.

Here's an example. Let's say I want to translate:

This is what the Legacy Translator gives me:

Converting it back to English with the translator, we get:

Pretty much the same as what we put in, right? However, there are several major mistakes someone who only uses the translator would never spot. Let's go through the translated sentence and see what those mistakes are.

To start, "to go on" is an English expression that means "to happen". A word-for-word translation here does not work at all in the dragon language, for the same reason you'd be confused if I told you in English "Peace fire sky".

Second, med means "like or similar to" (as in "like a dragon"), not "to like something". We have a similar problem with lost "have", which is only used to form verb tense ("have fought") and never in the sense of "to have something". English words with double meanings are a nightmare for the Legacy Translator because nothing would seem to be wrong if you used the translator to convert it back to English.

This is just one example. The issues are greatly compounded when the Legacy Translator is used for casual things like chat.

What would a good translation look like? I might say: Drem yol lok, bo paaz? Laan hi tinvaak do rotuniik? Literally, this is "Peace fire sky (greetings), flying fair (is all well)? Do you want speech about the translator?"

You may notice this looks nothing like the original text, and that's true. Genuine Dovahzul is very different from colloquial English, which is why the Legacy Translator is so bad. The translations made by the Legacy Translator aren't Dovahzul, they're just English with different words.

The new translator has some really neat features that allow for phrases like "What's going on?" to be translated into "Bo paaz?" and for words with double meanings to be distinguished. Suggestions for new phrases and translations will go a long way towards making the translator more complete and usable.

Wow, I didn't realize how in-depth we were taking this language (here I thought we were just making up words to replace English words). Looks like I’m actually going to have to look at this a little deeper (since its an awesome subject).

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