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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Dovahzul Ranknames

 1 

laaniiksedov
April 11, 2019

I've been looking at this idea for a while. I've noticed that when it comes to rank names in Dovahzul, the language is extremely lacking.

Let's see: Okaazin, Kinbokein, Ruveyzun, and that's it.

I look at Ruveyzun as chiefly naval. Seeing as "Veysun" means ship. So more accurately Ruveyzun should be "Skipper".

So I've actually compiled my ideas for rank names in dovahzul in a nice little alphabetical list:

https://1drv.ms/w/s!Ap-vHPelh3YcoL0Kl-u860F96yZiRQ

A few notes:

Klovilen<<Kloviilen from Klov + -iil (of or pertaining to) + -en (of or originating from)

Kinbokrotin from Kinbokrot + In

Qurneniik comes from the fact that a flag (ensign) is sometimes referred to as a standard

Geltreiniik comes from Cornet in that I see Geltreiniik as "He who Holds the Horn".

I would have done Qurnenin and Geltreinin but repetitive consonants annoy me after a point, so I decided to use -iik instead.

Staaziik is kind of a bit of an odd one. Staaz means Harbor. I kind of like to think of it also meaning to protect. So protector is a decent way to translate Staaziik.

Both Corporal and Sergeant originate from Cavalry ranks Bombardier and the dutch cavalry rank of Wachtmeester Literally translating as "Watch-Master"

by laaniiksedov
April 11, 2019

I've been looking at this idea for a while. I've noticed that when it comes to rank names in Dovahzul, the language is extremely lacking.

Let's see: Okaazin, Kinbokein, Ruveyzun, and that's it.

I look at Ruveyzun as chiefly naval. Seeing as "Veysun" means ship. So more accurately Ruveyzun should be "Skipper".

So I've actually compiled my ideas for rank names in dovahzul in a nice little alphabetical list:

https://1drv.ms/w/s!Ap-vHPelh3YcoL0Kl-u860F96yZiRQ

A few notes:

Klovilen<<Kloviilen from Klov + -iil (of or pertaining to) + -en (of or originating from)

Kinbokrotin from Kinbokrot + In

Qurneniik comes from the fact that a flag (ensign) is sometimes referred to as a standard

Geltreiniik comes from Cornet in that I see Geltreiniik as "He who Holds the Horn".

I would have done Qurnenin and Geltreinin but repetitive consonants annoy me after a point, so I decided to use -iik instead.

Staaziik is kind of a bit of an odd one. Staaz means Harbor. I kind of like to think of it also meaning to protect. So protector is a decent way to translate Staaziik.

Both Corporal and Sergeant originate from Cavalry ranks Bombardier and the dutch cavalry rank of Wachtmeester Literally translating as "Watch-Master"


Zinrahzul
April 14, 2019
Interesting project. I see you are using the Legacy vocabulary in your names. I guess for now my response is that the vocabulary we have is what the game or official guides give us, therefore you don't see modern military ranks. I like how you're using some of the background of the ranks in your translation decision.
by Zinrahzul
April 14, 2019
Interesting project. I see you are using the Legacy vocabulary in your names. I guess for now my response is that the vocabulary we have is what the game or official guides give us, therefore you don't see modern military ranks. I like how you're using some of the background of the ranks in your translation decision.

laaniiksedov
April 27, 2019
Zinrahzul
Interesting project. I see you are using the Legacy vocabulary in your names. I guess for now my response is that the vocabulary we have is what the game or official guides give us, therefore you don't see modern military ranks. I like how you're using some of the background of the ranks in your translation decision.

[Drem Yol Lok] Zinrahzul, I understand that parthurnax has made the decision to move away from the "Legacy Dictionary". However, If I could point out as an avid linguistics aficionado--A language is defined as "an agreed upon system of symbols, sounds, and/or gestures used to convey meaning" Thus, by Parthurnax agreeing to put those words on this site, he is agreeing that they are a part of this language. So, while I understand his reasons, I have to disagree with this move. Until someone completely deletes it, I will consider the full legacy dictionary as the current lexicon for dovahzul and continue to add to that where I can.

by laaniiksedov
April 27, 2019
Zinrahzul
Interesting project. I see you are using the Legacy vocabulary in your names. I guess for now my response is that the vocabulary we have is what the game or official guides give us, therefore you don't see modern military ranks. I like how you're using some of the background of the ranks in your translation decision.

[Drem Yol Lok] Zinrahzul, I understand that parthurnax has made the decision to move away from the "Legacy Dictionary". However, If I could point out as an avid linguistics aficionado--A language is defined as "an agreed upon system of symbols, sounds, and/or gestures used to convey meaning" Thus, by Parthurnax agreeing to put those words on this site, he is agreeing that they are a part of this language. So, while I understand his reasons, I have to disagree with this move. Until someone completely deletes it, I will consider the full legacy dictionary as the current lexicon for dovahzul and continue to add to that where I can.


Liis
Moderator
April 27, 2019
@laaniiksedov,

I like Legacy too, but here's some advice: try studying canon vocabulary enough to know where to replace obsolete non-canon vocabulary with canon in order to preserve the uniqueness of the language instead of treating it like an English cypher, like a lot of Legacy did. Also, unfortunately, you cannot "add" anything to the Legacy Dictionary: it is locked and static, and will not be changed in any way, as it is officially unsupported.
by Liis
April 27, 2019
@laaniiksedov,



I like Legacy too, but here's some advice: try studying canon vocabulary enough to know where to replace obsolete non-canon vocabulary with canon in order to preserve the uniqueness of the language instead of treating it like an English cypher, like a lot of Legacy did. Also, unfortunately, you cannot "add" anything to the Legacy Dictionary: it is locked and static, and will not be changed in any way, as it is officially unsupported.

laaniiksedov
April 28, 2019
Liis
@laaniiksedov, I like Legacy too, but here's some advice: try studying canon vocabulary enough to know where to replace obsolete non-canon vocabulary with canon in order to preserve the uniqueness of the language instead of treating it like an English cypher, like a lot of Legacy did. Also, unfortunately, you cannot "add" anything to the Legacy Dictionary: it is locked and static, and will not be changed in any way, as it is officially unsupported.

I understand that I can't get my additions documented on this site, but I'm going to continue to try and discuss those words that I think of and create on here anyway.  As for your suggestion, looking at the new canon dictionary, the 600 canon words will start to lose their own meaning and substance if we just try to plaster on additional meanings. Which is why I disagree with Parthurnax on this particular issue. I'm not saying that I personally agree with all the words created in Legacy, but at least they allow more depth of meaning and accurate translation than just using the 600 canon words.

by laaniiksedov
April 28, 2019
Liis
@laaniiksedov, I like Legacy too, but here's some advice: try studying canon vocabulary enough to know where to replace obsolete non-canon vocabulary with canon in order to preserve the uniqueness of the language instead of treating it like an English cypher, like a lot of Legacy did. Also, unfortunately, you cannot "add" anything to the Legacy Dictionary: it is locked and static, and will not be changed in any way, as it is officially unsupported.

I understand that I can't get my additions documented on this site, but I'm going to continue to try and discuss those words that I think of and create on here anyway.  As for your suggestion, looking at the new canon dictionary, the 600 canon words will start to lose their own meaning and substance if we just try to plaster on additional meanings. Which is why I disagree with Parthurnax on this particular issue. I'm not saying that I personally agree with all the words created in Legacy, but at least they allow more depth of meaning and accurate translation than just using the 600 canon words.


Liis
Moderator
April 28, 2019
@laaniiksedov,

That's why you should use your own judgement, as my earlier post conveyed.
by Liis
April 28, 2019
@laaniiksedov,



That's why you should use your own judgement, as my earlier post conveyed.

laaniiksedov
April 30, 2019

So then, let's try this Based on the Israeli Defense Forces Ranks:

[Lot Kaal Diist Uth] lot kaal diist uth-General (an extrapolation of rav aluf-meaning Lieutenant General)

[Lot Kaal] lot kaal-Lieutenant General (from the IDF rank mentioned above)

[Kaal] kaal-Major General (from the IDF rank aluf)

[Tum Kaal] tum kaal-Brigadier General (from the IDF rank tat aluf)

[Ziist Kaal] ziist kaal-Colonel (from the IDF rank aluf mishne) 

[Qolaas Kaal] qolaas kaal-Lieutenant Colonel

[Lot Kulaan] lot kulaan-Major (From IDF rank rav seren)

[Kulaan] kulaan-Captain (From IDF rank seren)

[Qolaas] qolaas-Lieutenant, First Lieutenant, Deputy

[Ziist Qolaas] ziist qolaas-Second Lieutenant

[Lot Vahlok] lot vahlok-Chief Warrant Officer

[Ziist Lot Vahlok] ziist lot vahlok-Warrant Officer

[Wuth Lot Deinmaar do Lahvu] wuth lot deinmaar do lahvu-Sergeant Major of the Army

[Wuth Lot Deinmaar] wuth lot deinmaar- Command Sergeant Major

[Pruzaan Lot Deinmaar] pruzaan lot deinmaar- Sergeant Major

[Lot Deinmaar Diist Uth] lot deinmaar diist uth- Master Sergeant

[Lot Deinmaar] lot deinmaar-Sergeant First Class

[Deinmaar Diist Uth] deinmaar diist Uth-Staff Sergeant

[Deinmaar] deinmaar-Sergeant

[Tum Deinmaar] tum deinmaar-Corporal

[Lot Kendov] lot kendov-Private First Class

[Kendov] kendov-Private

by laaniiksedov
April 30, 2019

So then, let's try this Based on the Israeli Defense Forces Ranks:

[Lot Kaal Diist Uth] lot kaal diist uth-General (an extrapolation of rav aluf-meaning Lieutenant General)

[Lot Kaal] lot kaal-Lieutenant General (from the IDF rank mentioned above)

[Kaal] kaal-Major General (from the IDF rank aluf)

[Tum Kaal] tum kaal-Brigadier General (from the IDF rank tat aluf)

[Ziist Kaal] ziist kaal-Colonel (from the IDF rank aluf mishne) 

[Qolaas Kaal] qolaas kaal-Lieutenant Colonel

[Lot Kulaan] lot kulaan-Major (From IDF rank rav seren)

[Kulaan] kulaan-Captain (From IDF rank seren)

[Qolaas] qolaas-Lieutenant, First Lieutenant, Deputy

[Ziist Qolaas] ziist qolaas-Second Lieutenant

[Lot Vahlok] lot vahlok-Chief Warrant Officer

[Ziist Lot Vahlok] ziist lot vahlok-Warrant Officer

[Wuth Lot Deinmaar do Lahvu] wuth lot deinmaar do lahvu-Sergeant Major of the Army

[Wuth Lot Deinmaar] wuth lot deinmaar- Command Sergeant Major

[Pruzaan Lot Deinmaar] pruzaan lot deinmaar- Sergeant Major

[Lot Deinmaar Diist Uth] lot deinmaar diist uth- Master Sergeant

[Lot Deinmaar] lot deinmaar-Sergeant First Class

[Deinmaar Diist Uth] deinmaar diist Uth-Staff Sergeant

[Deinmaar] deinmaar-Sergeant

[Tum Deinmaar] tum deinmaar-Corporal

[Lot Kendov] lot kendov-Private First Class

[Kendov] kendov-Private


laaniiksedov
May 4, 2019

So. Here's another option for officers

[Thursekein] THURSEKeiN-Field Marshal

[Konahrik] KONahRIK-General

[Kopraan Konahrik] KOPRaaN KONahRIK-Corps General

[Vahzah Haal Konahrik] VahZah HaaL KONahRIK-Lieutenant General (lit: Right Hand of the Warlord)

[Krent Konahrik] KRENT KONahRIK-Division General

[Kaal Konahrik] KaaL KONahRIK-Major General

[Ronax Konahrik] RONAX KONahRIK-Brigade General

[Du'ulin] Du'uLIN-Colonel

[Vahzah Haal Du'ulin] VahZah HaaL Du'uLIN-Lieutenant Colonel

[KaaL] KaaL-Major

[KINBOK] KINBOK-Captain

[VahZah HaaL] VahZah HaaL-Lieutenant

[ZiiST VahZah HaaL] ZiiST VahZah HaaL-Second Lieutenant

You'll notice a few words here and there which are not quite canon. I.E Du'ulin. It is technically non-canon. However it uses two words from canon: Du'ul and In. So I included it.

by laaniiksedov
May 4, 2019

So. Here's another option for officers

[Thursekein] THURSEKeiN-Field Marshal

[Konahrik] KONahRIK-General

[Kopraan Konahrik] KOPRaaN KONahRIK-Corps General

[Vahzah Haal Konahrik] VahZah HaaL KONahRIK-Lieutenant General (lit: Right Hand of the Warlord)

[Krent Konahrik] KRENT KONahRIK-Division General

[Kaal Konahrik] KaaL KONahRIK-Major General

[Ronax Konahrik] RONAX KONahRIK-Brigade General

[Du'ulin] Du'uLIN-Colonel

[Vahzah Haal Du'ulin] VahZah HaaL Du'uLIN-Lieutenant Colonel

[KaaL] KaaL-Major

[KINBOK] KINBOK-Captain

[VahZah HaaL] VahZah HaaL-Lieutenant

[ZiiST VahZah HaaL] ZiiST VahZah HaaL-Second Lieutenant

You'll notice a few words here and there which are not quite canon. I.E Du'ulin. It is technically non-canon. However it uses two words from canon: Du'ul and In. So I included it.


laaniiksedov
July 25, 2019

Totally Cannon:

[Naar Konahrik] Naar Konahrik-Captain General, Field Marshal

[Konahrik] Konahrik-General

[Us Konahrik] Us Konahrik-Lieutenant General

[Frul Konahrik] Frul Konahrik-Major General

[Lot Kaal] Lot Kaal-Brigadier (General)

[Kaal] Kaal-Colonel

[Ziist Kaal] Ziist Kaal-Lieutenant Colonel

[Kinbok] Kinbok-Major

[Kulaan] Kulaan-Captain

[Diist In] Diist In-First Lieutenant

[Ziist In] Ziist In-Second Lieutenant

-----[Vahlokke]--Vahlokke--Warrant Officers---

[Naar Vahlok] Naar Vahlok-Chief Warrant Officer

[In Vahlok] In Vahlok-Master Warrant Officer

[Vahlok Brod Gein] Vahlok Brod Gein-Warrant Officer Class I

[Vahlok Brod Ziin] Vahlok Brod Ziin-Warrant Officer Class II

----[Zuwuth Qolasse]--Zuwuth Qolasse--Senior Sergeants----

[Naar Qolaas] Naar Qolaas-Sergeant Major

[Diist Qolaas] Diist Qolaas-First Sergeant

[In Qolaas] In Qolaas-Master Sergeant

[Kaal Qolaas] Kaal Qolaas-Technical Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Gunnery Sergeant

----[Qolasse]--Qolasse--Sergeants

[Klov Qolaas] Klov Qolaas-Staff Sergeant

[Qolaas] Qolaas-Sergeant

[Frul Qolaas] Frul Qolaas-Lance Sergeant, Corporal, Mladshiy Sjerzhant

----[Kendovve]--Kendovve--Junior enlisted

[Kaal Kendov] Kaal Kendov-Private First Class, Lance Corporal

[Kendov] Kendov-Private

 

So this is another concept to try and give a full rank set for a modern military using CANON Dovah. It can be done. And, in fact, is not that difficult. using [in] as lieutenant comes from the fact that in 19th century Anglophone navies, a Master was equivalent to a modern Sub-Lieutenant or Lieutenant Junior Grade. [Kulaan] comes from Seren in Hebrew. [Qolaas] comes from the literal definition of çavu? from Ottoman Turkish. [Naar Qolaas] and [Naar Vahlok] come from the fact that they are each the top or summit of their rank scales.

 

Also, can I ask why there are no numbers in Canon Dovahzul? It seems a short-sighted decision on the part of the designers.

by laaniiksedov
July 25, 2019

Totally Cannon:

[Naar Konahrik] Naar Konahrik-Captain General, Field Marshal

[Konahrik] Konahrik-General

[Us Konahrik] Us Konahrik-Lieutenant General

[Frul Konahrik] Frul Konahrik-Major General

[Lot Kaal] Lot Kaal-Brigadier (General)

[Kaal] Kaal-Colonel

[Ziist Kaal] Ziist Kaal-Lieutenant Colonel

[Kinbok] Kinbok-Major

[Kulaan] Kulaan-Captain

[Diist In] Diist In-First Lieutenant

[Ziist In] Ziist In-Second Lieutenant

-----[Vahlokke]--Vahlokke--Warrant Officers---

[Naar Vahlok] Naar Vahlok-Chief Warrant Officer

[In Vahlok] In Vahlok-Master Warrant Officer

[Vahlok Brod Gein] Vahlok Brod Gein-Warrant Officer Class I

[Vahlok Brod Ziin] Vahlok Brod Ziin-Warrant Officer Class II

----[Zuwuth Qolasse]--Zuwuth Qolasse--Senior Sergeants----

[Naar Qolaas] Naar Qolaas-Sergeant Major

[Diist Qolaas] Diist Qolaas-First Sergeant

[In Qolaas] In Qolaas-Master Sergeant

[Kaal Qolaas] Kaal Qolaas-Technical Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Gunnery Sergeant

----[Qolasse]--Qolasse--Sergeants

[Klov Qolaas] Klov Qolaas-Staff Sergeant

[Qolaas] Qolaas-Sergeant

[Frul Qolaas] Frul Qolaas-Lance Sergeant, Corporal, Mladshiy Sjerzhant

----[Kendovve]--Kendovve--Junior enlisted

[Kaal Kendov] Kaal Kendov-Private First Class, Lance Corporal

[Kendov] Kendov-Private

 

So this is another concept to try and give a full rank set for a modern military using CANON Dovah. It can be done. And, in fact, is not that difficult. using [in] as lieutenant comes from the fact that in 19th century Anglophone navies, a Master was equivalent to a modern Sub-Lieutenant or Lieutenant Junior Grade. [Kulaan] comes from Seren in Hebrew. [Qolaas] comes from the literal definition of çavu? from Ottoman Turkish. [Naar Qolaas] and [Naar Vahlok] come from the fact that they are each the top or summit of their rank scales.

 

Also, can I ask why there are no numbers in Canon Dovahzul? It seems a short-sighted decision on the part of the designers.


Zinrahzul
July 26, 2019
Wow, that's a lot to digest, but cool work, laaniiksedov! Looks like you did your research on rank history. I'm uncertain with your usage of qolaas, but I'll look at the names in context to the word origins and give you some feedback, if that's what you would like.

I agree and share your disappointment that we never got a canon number system to work with. I think the language usage in the game wasn't focused on showing us the language as used by the Nords, but as used by the dov, not caring about actual counting or measuring.
by Zinrahzul
July 26, 2019
Wow, that's a lot to digest, but cool work, laaniiksedov! Looks like you did your research on rank history. I'm uncertain with your usage of qolaas, but I'll look at the names in context to the word origins and give you some feedback, if that's what you would like.



I agree and share your disappointment that we never got a canon number system to work with. I think the language usage in the game wasn't focused on showing us the language as used by the Nords, but as used by the dov, not caring about actual counting or measuring.

laaniiksedov
July 27, 2019

https://bit.ly/2Zpq1fu << The wiktionary etymology article on seren. Spelled here with latin characters since the website doesn't want to show the hebrew abjad.

https://bit.ly/2LJOOrz << The wiktionary etymology article on aluf. Which is the reason I chose [Kaal] for Colonel, even though in modern Israel that rank is aluf mishne. It used to be Colonel, and rav aluf used to be the equivalent of brigadier or colonel commandant. They changed their system so rav aluf became the equivalent of a Lieutenant General or Corps General in NATO armies. Aluf became Major General and they added aluf mishne to be Colonel and tat aluf to be the equivalent of Brigadier General or Brigade General in NATO. I'm taking the original definition and its intended use in 1948 and loan translating it to give the rank of colonel.

https://bit.ly/2Yr2duG << The wiktionary etymology article on chavush spelled with a c with a cedilla and an s with the same where ch and sh are. Since the website doesn't want to show an s with cedilla I've decided to show this spelling instead.

by laaniiksedov
July 27, 2019

https://bit.ly/2Zpq1fu << The wiktionary etymology article on seren. Spelled here with latin characters since the website doesn't want to show the hebrew abjad.

https://bit.ly/2LJOOrz << The wiktionary etymology article on aluf. Which is the reason I chose [Kaal] for Colonel, even though in modern Israel that rank is aluf mishne. It used to be Colonel, and rav aluf used to be the equivalent of brigadier or colonel commandant. They changed their system so rav aluf became the equivalent of a Lieutenant General or Corps General in NATO armies. Aluf became Major General and they added aluf mishne to be Colonel and tat aluf to be the equivalent of Brigadier General or Brigade General in NATO. I'm taking the original definition and its intended use in 1948 and loan translating it to give the rank of colonel.

https://bit.ly/2Yr2duG << The wiktionary etymology article on chavush spelled with a c with a cedilla and an s with the same where ch and sh are. Since the website doesn't want to show an s with cedilla I've decided to show this spelling instead.


laaniiksedov
July 27, 2019

This post has been deleted.

by laaniiksedov
July 27, 2019

This post has been deleted.


Zinrahzul
August 9, 2019

I can't speak to the actual etymologies for qolaas and kulaan and possible connections. I'm having a hard time associating qolaas (herald) with the military, actually. Here's my take on the ranks, starting with my first thoughts:

 

Kendov - definitely the perfect analog for "soldier", but I think it'd be a waste to use it for the two lowest ranks.

Konahrik - warlord, definitely general (as you have it)

Drog - A good modifier for leaders. I personally would use this instead of klov (head), since I don't think there's any indication in Dovahzul of "head" being an analog for leadership.

Kinbok - sounds very Civilian to me, but could be useful

Kaal - champion, a great modifier for rank. I would personally use this for higher ranks

Hun - hero, anyone of any rank can technically be a hero, but this might be a good modifier for higher ranks if no others fit

Now my thoughts on the rank names:

Private - I see private in this case means "part of a private army", but that really doesn't modify "soldier". I checked out the Wiki entry for a U.S. military "private" and there's mention of "recruit". Even though it's technically not the meaning equivalent, perhaps we can use "Goraan-Kendov" [goraan-kendov] (shortened to Goraan [goraan]) for Privates. Private First Class would be Lot-goraan (great young one) [lot-goraan].

Corporal, Lance Corporal - I did a quick Google check for the etymology of "Lance Corporal" and it indicates to me "one who has broken a lance in combat and therefore a leader" and corporal is a reference to the body (easy etymology to [kopraan], woo). With that in mind, I don't know if "temporary herald" is a good fit for that. Even the Wiki entry on the IDF says the equivalent corporal rank means "chief private" so Drog-Kendov [drog-kendov] is my suggestion for Lance Corporal.

Sergeant - Comes from "servant", even though in effect this is a leader of soldiers. Drogseaam could be somewhat of a way to modify

Lieutenant - Ok, I'm seeing "deputy" as the etymology of this in terms of the Israeli Defense Force. Deputy is "one to which a task has been assigned". I see that just like in other militaries, these are some of the lowest ranking officers

Finally: I personally prefer using hyphenated expressions for rank names especially since it visually shows there's an association in the words and people casually looking at them realize they're probably not normal Dovahzul words.

So, here are my suggestions for some the enlisted ranks, at least:

Private: Goraan Kendov [goraan kendov] (Goraan [goraan])

Private First Class: Lot-Goraan Kendov (Lot-goraan [lot-goraan])

Corporal: Kopraansekendov [kopraansekendov] (Kopraan [kopraan])

Lance Corporal: Drog-Kopraansekendov [drog-kopraansekendov] (Drog-Kopraan [drog-kopraan])

Sergeant: Kinbok-Kendov [kinbok-kendov]

Staff Sergeant: Lot Kinbok-Kendov [lot kinbok kendov]

Sergeant First-Class: Drog Kinbok-Kendov [drog kinbok-kendov]

...

Question:  Is there a particular reason you're going for the Israeli Defense Force ranks?

 

by Zinrahzul
August 9, 2019

I can't speak to the actual etymologies for qolaas and kulaan and possible connections. I'm having a hard time associating qolaas (herald) with the military, actually. Here's my take on the ranks, starting with my first thoughts:

 

Kendov - definitely the perfect analog for "soldier", but I think it'd be a waste to use it for the two lowest ranks.

Konahrik - warlord, definitely general (as you have it)

Drog - A good modifier for leaders. I personally would use this instead of klov (head), since I don't think there's any indication in Dovahzul of "head" being an analog for leadership.

Kinbok - sounds very Civilian to me, but could be useful

Kaal - champion, a great modifier for rank. I would personally use this for higher ranks

Hun - hero, anyone of any rank can technically be a hero, but this might be a good modifier for higher ranks if no others fit

Now my thoughts on the rank names:

Private - I see private in this case means "part of a private army", but that really doesn't modify "soldier". I checked out the Wiki entry for a U.S. military "private" and there's mention of "recruit". Even though it's technically not the meaning equivalent, perhaps we can use "Goraan-Kendov" [goraan-kendov] (shortened to Goraan [goraan]) for Privates. Private First Class would be Lot-goraan (great young one) [lot-goraan].

Corporal, Lance Corporal - I did a quick Google check for the etymology of "Lance Corporal" and it indicates to me "one who has broken a lance in combat and therefore a leader" and corporal is a reference to the body (easy etymology to [kopraan], woo). With that in mind, I don't know if "temporary herald" is a good fit for that. Even the Wiki entry on the IDF says the equivalent corporal rank means "chief private" so Drog-Kendov [drog-kendov] is my suggestion for Lance Corporal.

Sergeant - Comes from "servant", even though in effect this is a leader of soldiers. Drogseaam could be somewhat of a way to modify

Lieutenant - Ok, I'm seeing "deputy" as the etymology of this in terms of the Israeli Defense Force. Deputy is "one to which a task has been assigned". I see that just like in other militaries, these are some of the lowest ranking officers

Finally: I personally prefer using hyphenated expressions for rank names especially since it visually shows there's an association in the words and people casually looking at them realize they're probably not normal Dovahzul words.

So, here are my suggestions for some the enlisted ranks, at least:

Private: Goraan Kendov [goraan kendov] (Goraan [goraan])

Private First Class: Lot-Goraan Kendov (Lot-goraan [lot-goraan])

Corporal: Kopraansekendov [kopraansekendov] (Kopraan [kopraan])

Lance Corporal: Drog-Kopraansekendov [drog-kopraansekendov] (Drog-Kopraan [drog-kopraan])

Sergeant: Kinbok-Kendov [kinbok-kendov]

Staff Sergeant: Lot Kinbok-Kendov [lot kinbok kendov]

Sergeant First-Class: Drog Kinbok-Kendov [drog kinbok-kendov]

...

Question:  Is there a particular reason you're going for the Israeli Defense Force ranks?

 


laaniiksedov
August 10, 2019

This post has been deleted.

by laaniiksedov
August 10, 2019

This post has been deleted.


laaniiksedov
August 10, 2019
Zinrahzul

I can't speak to the actual etymologies for qolaas?and kulaan?and possible connections. I'm having a hard time associating qolaas (herald) with the military, actually. Here's my take on the ranks, starting with my first thoughts:

?

Kendov - definitely the perfect analog for "soldier", but I think it'd be a waste to use it for the two lowest ranks.

Konahrik - warlord, definitely general (as you have it)

Drog - A good modifier for leaders. I personally would use this instead of klov (head), since I don't think there's any indication in Dovahzul of "head" being an analog for leadership.

Kinbok - sounds very Civilian to me, but could be useful

Kaal - champion, a great modifier for rank. I would personally use this for higher ranks

Hun - hero, anyone of any rank can technically be a hero, but this might be a good modifier for higher ranks if no others fit

Now my thoughts on the rank names:

Private - I see private in this case means "part of a private army", but that really doesn't modify "soldier". I checked out the Wiki entry for a U.S. military "private" and there's mention of "recruit". Even though it's technically not the meaning equivalent, perhaps we can use "Goraan-Kendov" [goraan-kendov] (shortened to Goraan [goraan]) for Privates. Private First Class would be Lot-goraan (great young one) [lot-goraan].

Corporal, Lance Corporal - I did a quick Google check for the etymology of "Lance Corporal" and it indicates to me "one who has broken a lance in combat and therefore a leader" and corporal is a reference?to the body (easy etymology to [kopraan], woo). With that in mind, I don't know if "temporary herald" is a good fit for that. Even the Wiki entry on the IDF says the equivalent corporal rank means "chief private" so Drog-Kendov [drog-kendov] is my suggestion for Lance Corporal.

Sergeant - Comes from "servant", even though in effect this is a leader of soldiers. Drogseaam could be somewhat of a way to modify

Lieutenant - Ok, I'm seeing "deputy" as the etymology of this in?terms of the Israeli Defense Force. Deputy is "one to which a task has been assigned". I see that just like in other militaries, these are some of the lowest ranking officers

Finally: I personally prefer using hyphenated expressions for rank names especially since it visually shows there's an association in the words and people casually looking at them realize they're probably not normal Dovahzul words.

So, here are my suggestions for some the enlisted ranks, at least:

Private: Goraan?Kendov [goraan kendov] (Goraan [goraan])

Private First Class: Lot-Goraan Kendov (Lot-goraan [lot-goraan])

Corporal: Kopraansekendov [kopraansekendov] (Kopraan [kopraan])

Lance Corporal: Drog-Kopraansekendov [drog-kopraansekendov] (Drog-Kopraan [drog-kopraan])

Sergeant: Kinbok-Kendov [kinbok-kendov]

Staff Sergeant: Lot Kinbok-Kendov [lot kinbok kendov]

Sergeant First-Class: Drog Kinbok-Kendov [drog kinbok-kendov]

...

Question:? Is there a particular reason you're going for the Israeli Defense Force ranks?

?

There's many gramatical concepts that Modern Hebrew and Dovah share. The rank system in Israel is completely contrived. It was basically words that were shoe-horned into a rank system appropriate for the IDF when it first started out. Thus I think we can learn a lot about how rank systems work from it.

As for Private, you are sort of right??It is from private armies, but it's from the term Private Soldier. We just dropped 'Soldier'. Armies in Romance-Language-speaking countries would also drop the second word. For them that word was whatever their word was for "Private" since that adjective would have appeared after the noun of whatever their word was for "Soldier."?Soldat privat>>soldat. Soldado Privado>>Soldado.

As for your use of Lance Corporal, Well Lance Corporal as its used in modern rank systems is actually subordinate to a Corporal. And Lance Sergeant is subordinate to Sergeant.

I'm actually bouncing around the world, not just the IDF, but the Turkish Military (Qolaas=Chavush) And others.

Oh and potential term for Lieutenant: [Zet-Kei-un] from ZKU an acronym of [Ziist Ko Uth] Ziist ko Uth or Second-in-Command.

So, here's the new idea:

[Konahrik] Konahrik - General

[Us Konahrik] Us Konahrik - Lieutenant General

[Mal Konahrik] Mal Konahrik - Major General

[Qilaan Konahrik] Qilaan Konahrik - Brigadier General (literally "Submitting Warlord")

[Lot Kaal] Lot Kaal - Brigadier, Colonel Commandant, Colonel Major

[Kaal] Kaal - Colonel

[Paarthurnax Kaal] Paarthurnax Kaal - Lieutenant Colonel

[Du'ul Kulaan] Du'ul Kulaan - Major (this and Lot Kulaan have been exchanging places in my head. I like Du'ul Kulaan because Major is?the rank Prince William has in the Army and he's the Crown Prince. The insignia in the "pips and crowns" system of rank is a St. Edward's Crown on the shoulder strap)

[Kulaan] Kulaan - Captain (Again?Seren?in modern hebrew is used to mean Captain, but meant Prince in biblical hebrew.)

[Paarthurnax] Paarthurnax - Lieutenant (Using Paarthurnax's name to mean lieutenant because Paarthurnax was Alduin's lieutenant before he betrayed him)

[Mal Paarthurnax] Mal Paarthurnax - Sub Lieutenant.

?

Gonna leave the Warrant Officers the same

?

[Aarsekein] Aarsekein - Sergeant (Servant of War, gives us a similar etymology as Sergeant. if we want to use Sergeant as the basis of our Dovahzul rank)

[Frul Aarsekein] Frul Aarsekein (Remember what I said that "Lance" ranks are subordinant to their substantive ranks)

[Insekopraan] Insekopraan - Corporal (Corporal comes to us from the Italian Capo Corporale "head of the Corps")

[Frul Insekopraan] Frul Insekopraan - Lance Corporal

[Kaal Goraan] Kaal Goraan - Private First Class

[Goraan] Goraan - Private

?

Also, I just wanted to say thank you for talking with me about this. It really has helped me quite a bit.

by laaniiksedov
August 10, 2019
Zinrahzul

I can't speak to the actual etymologies for qolaas?and kulaan?and possible connections. I'm having a hard time associating qolaas (herald) with the military, actually. Here's my take on the ranks, starting with my first thoughts:

?

Kendov - definitely the perfect analog for "soldier", but I think it'd be a waste to use it for the two lowest ranks.

Konahrik - warlord, definitely general (as you have it)

Drog - A good modifier for leaders. I personally would use this instead of klov (head), since I don't think there's any indication in Dovahzul of "head" being an analog for leadership.

Kinbok - sounds very Civilian to me, but could be useful

Kaal - champion, a great modifier for rank. I would personally use this for higher ranks

Hun - hero, anyone of any rank can technically be a hero, but this might be a good modifier for higher ranks if no others fit

Now my thoughts on the rank names:

Private - I see private in this case means "part of a private army", but that really doesn't modify "soldier". I checked out the Wiki entry for a U.S. military "private" and there's mention of "recruit". Even though it's technically not the meaning equivalent, perhaps we can use "Goraan-Kendov" [goraan-kendov] (shortened to Goraan [goraan]) for Privates. Private First Class would be Lot-goraan (great young one) [lot-goraan].

Corporal, Lance Corporal - I did a quick Google check for the etymology of "Lance Corporal" and it indicates to me "one who has broken a lance in combat and therefore a leader" and corporal is a reference?to the body (easy etymology to [kopraan], woo). With that in mind, I don't know if "temporary herald" is a good fit for that. Even the Wiki entry on the IDF says the equivalent corporal rank means "chief private" so Drog-Kendov [drog-kendov] is my suggestion for Lance Corporal.

Sergeant - Comes from "servant", even though in effect this is a leader of soldiers. Drogseaam could be somewhat of a way to modify

Lieutenant - Ok, I'm seeing "deputy" as the etymology of this in?terms of the Israeli Defense Force. Deputy is "one to which a task has been assigned". I see that just like in other militaries, these are some of the lowest ranking officers

Finally: I personally prefer using hyphenated expressions for rank names especially since it visually shows there's an association in the words and people casually looking at them realize they're probably not normal Dovahzul words.

So, here are my suggestions for some the enlisted ranks, at least:

Private: Goraan?Kendov [goraan kendov] (Goraan [goraan])

Private First Class: Lot-Goraan Kendov (Lot-goraan [lot-goraan])

Corporal: Kopraansekendov [kopraansekendov] (Kopraan [kopraan])

Lance Corporal: Drog-Kopraansekendov [drog-kopraansekendov] (Drog-Kopraan [drog-kopraan])

Sergeant: Kinbok-Kendov [kinbok-kendov]

Staff Sergeant: Lot Kinbok-Kendov [lot kinbok kendov]

Sergeant First-Class: Drog Kinbok-Kendov [drog kinbok-kendov]

...

Question:? Is there a particular reason you're going for the Israeli Defense Force ranks?

?

There's many gramatical concepts that Modern Hebrew and Dovah share. The rank system in Israel is completely contrived. It was basically words that were shoe-horned into a rank system appropriate for the IDF when it first started out. Thus I think we can learn a lot about how rank systems work from it.

As for Private, you are sort of right??It is from private armies, but it's from the term Private Soldier. We just dropped 'Soldier'. Armies in Romance-Language-speaking countries would also drop the second word. For them that word was whatever their word was for "Private" since that adjective would have appeared after the noun of whatever their word was for "Soldier."?Soldat privat>>soldat. Soldado Privado>>Soldado.

As for your use of Lance Corporal, Well Lance Corporal as its used in modern rank systems is actually subordinate to a Corporal. And Lance Sergeant is subordinate to Sergeant.

I'm actually bouncing around the world, not just the IDF, but the Turkish Military (Qolaas=Chavush) And others.

Oh and potential term for Lieutenant: [Zet-Kei-un] from ZKU an acronym of [Ziist Ko Uth] Ziist ko Uth or Second-in-Command.

So, here's the new idea:

[Konahrik] Konahrik - General

[Us Konahrik] Us Konahrik - Lieutenant General

[Mal Konahrik] Mal Konahrik - Major General

[Qilaan Konahrik] Qilaan Konahrik - Brigadier General (literally "Submitting Warlord")

[Lot Kaal] Lot Kaal - Brigadier, Colonel Commandant, Colonel Major

[Kaal] Kaal - Colonel

[Paarthurnax Kaal] Paarthurnax Kaal - Lieutenant Colonel

[Du'ul Kulaan] Du'ul Kulaan - Major (this and Lot Kulaan have been exchanging places in my head. I like Du'ul Kulaan because Major is?the rank Prince William has in the Army and he's the Crown Prince. The insignia in the "pips and crowns" system of rank is a St. Edward's Crown on the shoulder strap)

[Kulaan] Kulaan - Captain (Again?Seren?in modern hebrew is used to mean Captain, but meant Prince in biblical hebrew.)

[Paarthurnax] Paarthurnax - Lieutenant (Using Paarthurnax's name to mean lieutenant because Paarthurnax was Alduin's lieutenant before he betrayed him)

[Mal Paarthurnax] Mal Paarthurnax - Sub Lieutenant.

?

Gonna leave the Warrant Officers the same

?

[Aarsekein] Aarsekein - Sergeant (Servant of War, gives us a similar etymology as Sergeant. if we want to use Sergeant as the basis of our Dovahzul rank)

[Frul Aarsekein] Frul Aarsekein (Remember what I said that "Lance" ranks are subordinant to their substantive ranks)

[Insekopraan] Insekopraan - Corporal (Corporal comes to us from the Italian Capo Corporale "head of the Corps")

[Frul Insekopraan] Frul Insekopraan - Lance Corporal

[Kaal Goraan] Kaal Goraan - Private First Class

[Goraan] Goraan - Private

?

Also, I just wanted to say thank you for talking with me about this. It really has helped me quite a bit.