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A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

what language did/do the Nords speak?

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scrptrx
May 4, 2013

Is there any concensus as to what language the Nords originally spoke? I believe that the "common" language of the game (English or German or whatever language you set it to) is supposed to be Cyrodiilic, because Tamriel was once an Empire and Empires (eg Rome) spread their language. 

But the Nords used to be efficient if not fluent in Dovahzul, right? Does that mean that WAS their language, or did they have a Nordic language?

Just because they are "Nord" and very heavily influenced in the game design by Scandinavian lifestyles and ideologies (Norse, Icelandic...) doesn't mean they would speak something Germanic (obviously). It's an alternate universe, technically speaking, so Germanic languages don't exist. I find it funny that we automatically go straight to Old Norse or Old English for inspiration for their language (and even the Dov language), when it really has nothing at all to do with it.

So in that sense, in a fan fiction where the local's language is referenced, even Cyrodiilic would be up to one's discretion, though I think many would agree that Latin would be their "influence".

If Nords originally spoke Dovahzul, that'd make it a helluva lot easier than were it based on/similar to Old Norse. From a fic author's perspective, anyway.... :) 

by scrptrx
May 4, 2013

Is there any concensus as to what language the Nords originally spoke? I believe that the "common" language of the game (English or German or whatever language you set it to) is supposed to be Cyrodiilic, because Tamriel was once an Empire and Empires (eg Rome) spread their language. 

But the Nords used to be efficient if not fluent in Dovahzul, right? Does that mean that WAS their language, or did they have a Nordic language?

Just because they are "Nord" and very heavily influenced in the game design by Scandinavian lifestyles and ideologies (Norse, Icelandic...) doesn't mean they would speak something Germanic (obviously). It's an alternate universe, technically speaking, so Germanic languages don't exist. I find it funny that we automatically go straight to Old Norse or Old English for inspiration for their language (and even the Dov language), when it really has nothing at all to do with it.

So in that sense, in a fan fiction where the local's language is referenced, even Cyrodiilic would be up to one's discretion, though I think many would agree that Latin would be their "influence".

If Nords originally spoke Dovahzul, that'd make it a helluva lot easier than were it based on/similar to Old Norse. From a fic author's perspective, anyway.... :) 


paarthurnax
Administrator
May 6, 2013

Here's a chart of languages in the Elder Scrolls universe.

This goes really far back into lore to the point where it's hard to determine if this is history or just legend, but the Nords originally came from Atmora (but, again according to lore, originated in Skyrim and migrated to Atmora of course only to migrate back).  Back then they all spoke "Ehlnofex" or an Atmoran flavor of it.  I should note that *all* of the races apparently spoke Ehlnofex when they were first created.  Think of it as the Latin of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Ehlnofex then branched off into all the various languages.  So, the Nords would have gone from speaking Ehlnofex to Nordic.  We'll call this the Nordic-Ehlnofex Language or Early Nordic Language.  It's not really known when Dragons and the Nords began to interact but it is at least as far back as when they were still in Atmora.  Through Dragon-Nord interactions, the Nordic-Ehlnofex language and the Dragon Language would have mixed.  The Dragon Language would have likely been prominent among the priest and noble castes, as it was something that denoted power and strength.  Kind of like how in medieval England post-Hastings, French was the language of nobility while Old English was the language of the common folk.  As a result the English language became heavily infleunced by French.

Likewise, the Ehlnofex-Nordic Language would have probably borrowed a lot from the Dragon Language, resulting in what we'll call the Late Nordic Language, a child of Early Nordic and Dragon.  It was this language that the Nords and Tiber Septim took with them when they conquered Tamriel.

Cyrodiil had already seen two Empires come and go before Tiber came along.  They originated from the Nedes, who were previously enslaved to the Ayleids but rebelled.  So, the Cyrodill heartland is rich with Late Nedic language and culture (Late Nedic a combination of Early Nedic and Altmeri) when Tiber Septim, along with the Nords and Bretons, unifies Tamriel.  Thus Cyrodiilic as we know it is a combination of Late Nordic and the Nedic languages.

by paarthurnax
May 6, 2013

Here's a chart of languages in the Elder Scrolls universe.

This goes really far back into lore to the point where it's hard to determine if this is history or just legend, but the Nords originally came from Atmora (but, again according to lore, originated in Skyrim and migrated to Atmora of course only to migrate back).  Back then they all spoke "Ehlnofex" or an Atmoran flavor of it.  I should note that *all* of the races apparently spoke Ehlnofex when they were first created.  Think of it as the Latin of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Ehlnofex then branched off into all the various languages.  So, the Nords would have gone from speaking Ehlnofex to Nordic.  We'll call this the Nordic-Ehlnofex Language or Early Nordic Language.  It's not really known when Dragons and the Nords began to interact but it is at least as far back as when they were still in Atmora.  Through Dragon-Nord interactions, the Nordic-Ehlnofex language and the Dragon Language would have mixed.  The Dragon Language would have likely been prominent among the priest and noble castes, as it was something that denoted power and strength.  Kind of like how in medieval England post-Hastings, French was the language of nobility while Old English was the language of the common folk.  As a result the English language became heavily infleunced by French.

Likewise, the Ehlnofex-Nordic Language would have probably borrowed a lot from the Dragon Language, resulting in what we'll call the Late Nordic Language, a child of Early Nordic and Dragon.  It was this language that the Nords and Tiber Septim took with them when they conquered Tamriel.

Cyrodiil had already seen two Empires come and go before Tiber came along.  They originated from the Nedes, who were previously enslaved to the Ayleids but rebelled.  So, the Cyrodill heartland is rich with Late Nedic language and culture (Late Nedic a combination of Early Nedic and Altmeri) when Tiber Septim, along with the Nords and Bretons, unifies Tamriel.  Thus Cyrodiilic as we know it is a combination of Late Nordic and the Nedic languages.


paarthurnax
Administrator
May 6, 2013

If you want to get a sense of what the Nordic language was like, just look at their names for people or places: Ustengrav, Haafingaar, Yngol, Ysgramor, Atmora, Rannveig, Karthwasten, Markarth, Falkreath, Volskygge, Folgunthur, Valkygge, Volunruud, Eorlund, Jorrvaskr.

by paarthurnax
May 6, 2013

If you want to get a sense of what the Nordic language was like, just look at their names for people or places: Ustengrav, Haafingaar, Yngol, Ysgramor, Atmora, Rannveig, Karthwasten, Markarth, Falkreath, Volskygge, Folgunthur, Valkygge, Volunruud, Eorlund, Jorrvaskr.


scrptrx
May 6, 2013

I finally found that chart the other day and was very happy lol.

I agree with everything you wrote. 

This makes me happy, because I'd been playing around with a new fanfic and I had to basically come up with a way that the Nords (common Nords) would speak. I took Old Norse and Dovahzul and ran with it, using Icelandic grammar rules but making the language its own thing. 

I don't necessarily need it to be totally believable, since it's just a silly little fanfic, but it's so fun. heh.

I came up with things like,

"Vit? Vit." Understand? Understand. - Old Norse

"mina kune" my wife - Old Norse and Dragon

"tille" there - Dragon

"helta" halt - both D and ON

"hei" hey - generic Scandinavian

"hant" hand - mostly ON

"bren" fire "brenst" ignite - ON

"froth" magic/mage/wisdom - ON

"da ers" you are - ON and D

"nei" no - ON and D

"ki" not - ON and D

"hlig" listen (imper) - ON and D

"vler" others - ON and D

"truer" they believe "trun" he believes - ON

"nuk" but - Dragon

"fysan" wants/wishes - D and ON

"dath" death - ON

"sitja" stay - ON direct

"med" with - ON

"zeik" me/I - D and ON

"ath" and - D and ON

"lafa" live (imper) - D and ON

"her" here - ON and D

"klovt" head - ON and D

"gifik" troll - ON an D

 

by scrptrx
May 6, 2013

I finally found that chart the other day and was very happy lol.

I agree with everything you wrote. 

This makes me happy, because I'd been playing around with a new fanfic and I had to basically come up with a way that the Nords (common Nords) would speak. I took Old Norse and Dovahzul and ran with it, using Icelandic grammar rules but making the language its own thing. 

I don't necessarily need it to be totally believable, since it's just a silly little fanfic, but it's so fun. heh.

I came up with things like,

"Vit? Vit." Understand? Understand. - Old Norse

"mina kune" my wife - Old Norse and Dragon

"tille" there - Dragon

"helta" halt - both D and ON

"hei" hey - generic Scandinavian

"hant" hand - mostly ON

"bren" fire "brenst" ignite - ON

"froth" magic/mage/wisdom - ON

"da ers" you are - ON and D

"nei" no - ON and D

"ki" not - ON and D

"hlig" listen (imper) - ON and D

"vler" others - ON and D

"truer" they believe "trun" he believes - ON

"nuk" but - Dragon

"fysan" wants/wishes - D and ON

"dath" death - ON

"sitja" stay - ON direct

"med" with - ON

"zeik" me/I - D and ON

"ath" and - D and ON

"lafa" live (imper) - D and ON

"her" here - ON and D

"klovt" head - ON and D

"gifik" troll - ON an D

 


scrptrx
May 6, 2013
paarthurnax

If you want to get a sense of what the Nordic language was like, just look at their names for people or places: Ustengrav, Haafingaar, Yngol, Ysgramor, Atmora, Rannveig, Karthwasten, Markarth, Falkreath, Volskygge, Folgunthur, Valkygge, Volunruud, Eorlund, Jorrvaskr.

OH excellent point. Place-Names are almost always retained from their original founding,

by scrptrx
May 6, 2013
paarthurnax

If you want to get a sense of what the Nordic language was like, just look at their names for people or places: Ustengrav, Haafingaar, Yngol, Ysgramor, Atmora, Rannveig, Karthwasten, Markarth, Falkreath, Volskygge, Folgunthur, Valkygge, Volunruud, Eorlund, Jorrvaskr.

OH excellent point. Place-Names are almost always retained from their original founding,


scrptrx
August 25, 2013

Just wanted to share my construction of actual sentences/sort of a conversation in what I've just sort of created to be modern the Nord (Cyrodiilic) language.

I made some rules and everything, and even some exceptions to the rules. All adjectives end with an –a, imperative verbs either –a or –e, infinitives end in –r or –n usually, contractions drop unnecessary vowels and at an apostrophe, words ending in –ing in English end in –ig unless they are contracted like “doin’ it” would end in –ich, plural nouns end in –en, first and third person verbs end in –a, second person in –as/es, and first person plural in –an/en, past participles end in –ur, and adverbs end in –aar, and past tense active verbs end in -t.

A lot of this is coming from the Thuum site, a lot from Old Norse, and some from modern Germanic languages.

I was stupid though, while creating words for a story I didn’t bother making myself a dictionary, so I end up having to go back and search for words I’ve already created. Stupid stupid. Oh well.

-------------------------------------

"Ers da rona!?" – Are you ok?

"Hniga! Eg zeik!" – Open up! It’s me! (Am me)

"Vente, unna zeik freistar…." – Wait, let me try…

"Ach, Regen! Hvas er sa!? Hvas'r tithig!?" – Oh, Divines! What is that!? What's happening!?

"Reh ki ondig!" – She’s not breathing!

"Su leite Faralda! Ath Colette!" – Go get Faralda and Colette!

"Ha augen…." – her eyes…

"Er reh… feiga?" – is she… dead?

"Nei, nei, reh'r ondig, nuk…. Megas hylether zeik?" – No, no, she’s breathing, now…. Can you hear me?

"Hvas? Hvas reh telt?" – What? What did she say?

"Zeik ki vit." – I don’t know/understand.

"Unna zeik lithen!..." – Let me pass!

"Hvas er, Faralda?" – What is it?

"Er reik feld. Veyn reh fregt sas?" – It is a lightning cloak. Where did she learn this?

"Zeik ki vit." – I don’t know.

"Hyletha zeik. Da skuula letter sas reik feld. Ver ki hjalpen ef da ers laspanur." – Listen (to) me. You must drop this lightning cloak. We cannot help if you are shielded.

"Aiii, unna zeik…." – Gah, let me (try/do something)….

by scrptrx
August 25, 2013

Just wanted to share my construction of actual sentences/sort of a conversation in what I've just sort of created to be modern the Nord (Cyrodiilic) language.

I made some rules and everything, and even some exceptions to the rules. All adjectives end with an –a, imperative verbs either –a or –e, infinitives end in –r or –n usually, contractions drop unnecessary vowels and at an apostrophe, words ending in –ing in English end in –ig unless they are contracted like “doin’ it” would end in –ich, plural nouns end in –en, first and third person verbs end in –a, second person in –as/es, and first person plural in –an/en, past participles end in –ur, and adverbs end in –aar, and past tense active verbs end in -t.

A lot of this is coming from the Thuum site, a lot from Old Norse, and some from modern Germanic languages.

I was stupid though, while creating words for a story I didn’t bother making myself a dictionary, so I end up having to go back and search for words I’ve already created. Stupid stupid. Oh well.

-------------------------------------

"Ers da rona!?" – Are you ok?

"Hniga! Eg zeik!" – Open up! It’s me! (Am me)

"Vente, unna zeik freistar…." – Wait, let me try…

"Ach, Regen! Hvas er sa!? Hvas'r tithig!?" – Oh, Divines! What is that!? What's happening!?

"Reh ki ondig!" – She’s not breathing!

"Su leite Faralda! Ath Colette!" – Go get Faralda and Colette!

"Ha augen…." – her eyes…

"Er reh… feiga?" – is she… dead?

"Nei, nei, reh'r ondig, nuk…. Megas hylether zeik?" – No, no, she’s breathing, now…. Can you hear me?

"Hvas? Hvas reh telt?" – What? What did she say?

"Zeik ki vit." – I don’t know/understand.

"Unna zeik lithen!..." – Let me pass!

"Hvas er, Faralda?" – What is it?

"Er reik feld. Veyn reh fregt sas?" – It is a lightning cloak. Where did she learn this?

"Zeik ki vit." – I don’t know.

"Hyletha zeik. Da skuula letter sas reik feld. Ver ki hjalpen ef da ers laspanur." – Listen (to) me. You must drop this lightning cloak. We cannot help if you are shielded.

"Aiii, unna zeik…." – Gah, let me (try/do something)….


paarthurnax
Administrator
August 25, 2013

Super cool!  I'm loving this, it's just the right mix of all the inspirations.  Any special rules for sentence structure, or is it mostly the same as Cyrodiilic and Dovahzul?

by paarthurnax
August 25, 2013

Super cool!  I'm loving this, it's just the right mix of all the inspirations.  Any special rules for sentence structure, or is it mostly the same as Cyrodiilic and Dovahzul?


scrptrx
August 30, 2013

same as English/Dovahzul. at least I can't think of any funky things I did. I did come up with some idioms, but mainly they were stolen from other Scandinavian languages like Icelandic.

by scrptrx
August 30, 2013

same as English/Dovahzul. at least I can't think of any funky things I did. I did come up with some idioms, but mainly they were stolen from other Scandinavian languages like Icelandic.


scrptrx
September 3, 2013

Alright, here's a love letter and a drinking song in my concoction of Cyrodiilic. 

(This is how I party. Heh.)

 

Love letter (from pieced-together song lyrics):

Da lift da hem, fjar nol hvas da vit.

Naer da fallt, da fallt ti zeik,

Eth tha da lift zeik.

Freist hvar ena, eth nuk lafa ena zeik skelfa.

Hvi vit tid zeik vaka nuk.

Zeik da seknig erin dejar.

Dala naer da megas,

Thvia da stelt mina hjarta.

Kir, tele zeik sov, leith ti das.

 

You left your home, far from what you knew.

When you fell, you fell to me,

But then you left me.

I tried to go alone, but now life alone me skelfa.

Who knows the time I've been awake now.

I am missing you enough to die.

Return when you can,

For you have stolen my heart.

Please, tell me the secret, the way to yours.

 

Drinking song (adapted from "Little Brown Jug"):

Ath naer zeik deja nei zeik bren'

Med mjoth smira mina beinen

Leg' belsken yf min' fot ath klovt

Ath tha zeik vit zeik skul varthvat

And when I die don't burn me

With mead cover my bones

Place mugs at my foot and head

And then I know I will have been preserved

by scrptrx
September 3, 2013

Alright, here's a love letter and a drinking song in my concoction of Cyrodiilic. 

(This is how I party. Heh.)

 

Love letter (from pieced-together song lyrics):

Da lift da hem, fjar nol hvas da vit.

Naer da fallt, da fallt ti zeik,

Eth tha da lift zeik.

Freist hvar ena, eth nuk lafa ena zeik skelfa.

Hvi vit tid zeik vaka nuk.

Zeik da seknig erin dejar.

Dala naer da megas,

Thvia da stelt mina hjarta.

Kir, tele zeik sov, leith ti das.

 

You left your home, far from what you knew.

When you fell, you fell to me,

But then you left me.

I tried to go alone, but now life alone me skelfa.

Who knows the time I've been awake now.

I am missing you enough to die.

Return when you can,

For you have stolen my heart.

Please, tell me the secret, the way to yours.

 

Drinking song (adapted from "Little Brown Jug"):

Ath naer zeik deja nei zeik bren'

Med mjoth smira mina beinen

Leg' belsken yf min' fot ath klovt

Ath tha zeik vit zeik skul varthvat

And when I die don't burn me

With mead cover my bones

Place mugs at my foot and head

And then I know I will have been preserved


Roland
October 7, 2013
Brynja

Is there any concensus as to what language the Nords originally spoke? I believe that the "common" language of the game (English or German or whatever language you set it to) is supposed to be Cyrodiilic, because Tamriel was once an Empire and Empires (eg Rome) spread their language.

A very interesting supposition! Since I started to play Skyrim I always thought about the language of the Nords. (I'd never played TES series prior to Skyrim, at first I thought it was some old Norway or Europe until I noticed two giant moons in the sky, and hadn't known that the action took place on a different planet, Nirn!!)))

First of all, it should be borne in mind that TES is a fictional universe, though some concepts bear some similarities with real nations, names, toponyms (Nords-Germans, Foresworn-Picts or Celts, Redguards-Arabs, Argonians - probably Jews, since both deal with jewelry and diamonds))). 

As for the English language in the game it is commonly known as "the Tamrielic language" (judging from one of the ingame books). However, little is known about the language of the Nords, though the lore confirs that the Nords spoke some language. 

According to the toponyms such as Ingvild, Yorrvaskr, Valthum, Folgunthur, Windhelm, Solstheim, Volunruud, Volskygge, Ustengrav etc.  and names - Ysolda, Ysgramor, Vald, Bjorn, Sven, Ragnar the Red etc. the Nordic language apparently was "very similar to the Germanic Norse language (at least, judging from the Bethesda loremasters' fantasies). I hope that in later TES series or DLCs we'll be introduced to the language of the Nords and Skaals. Hope the language will be similar to the Old Norse.    

 

 

 

 

by Roland
October 7, 2013
Brynja

Is there any concensus as to what language the Nords originally spoke? I believe that the "common" language of the game (English or German or whatever language you set it to) is supposed to be Cyrodiilic, because Tamriel was once an Empire and Empires (eg Rome) spread their language.

A very interesting supposition! Since I started to play Skyrim I always thought about the language of the Nords. (I'd never played TES series prior to Skyrim, at first I thought it was some old Norway or Europe until I noticed two giant moons in the sky, and hadn't known that the action took place on a different planet, Nirn!!)))

First of all, it should be borne in mind that TES is a fictional universe, though some concepts bear some similarities with real nations, names, toponyms (Nords-Germans, Foresworn-Picts or Celts, Redguards-Arabs, Argonians - probably Jews, since both deal with jewelry and diamonds))). 

As for the English language in the game it is commonly known as "the Tamrielic language" (judging from one of the ingame books). However, little is known about the language of the Nords, though the lore confirs that the Nords spoke some language. 

According to the toponyms such as Ingvild, Yorrvaskr, Valthum, Folgunthur, Windhelm, Solstheim, Volunruud, Volskygge, Ustengrav etc.  and names - Ysolda, Ysgramor, Vald, Bjorn, Sven, Ragnar the Red etc. the Nordic language apparently was "very similar to the Germanic Norse language (at least, judging from the Bethesda loremasters' fantasies). I hope that in later TES series or DLCs we'll be introduced to the language of the Nords and Skaals. Hope the language will be similar to the Old Norse.    

 

 

 

 


Roland
October 8, 2013
paarthurnax

Here's a chart of languages in the Elder Scrolls universe.

And here is another speculative chart, however, less contradictory.

http://tiarum.com/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:LNI_02_eng.jpg

Here is another interesting info about Nordic vocabulary, though fanfic it's much like Old Norse:)

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hrafnirs-languages-nordic#Nordic

by Roland
October 8, 2013
paarthurnax

Here's a chart of languages in the Elder Scrolls universe.

And here is another speculative chart, however, less contradictory.

http://tiarum.com/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:LNI_02_eng.jpg

Here is another interesting info about Nordic vocabulary, though fanfic it's much like Old Norse:)

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hrafnirs-languages-nordic#Nordic


paarthurnax
Administrator
October 8, 2013

I agree that Nordic and Nedic shouldn't be related.  But, what's missing from that chart is the relationship between Dragon and Nordic, and the relationship between both Nordic, Nedic and Cyrodiilic, and I think those are really important to understand.

by paarthurnax
October 8, 2013

I agree that Nordic and Nedic shouldn't be related.  But, what's missing from that chart is the relationship between Dragon and Nordic, and the relationship between both Nordic, Nedic and Cyrodiilic, and I think those are really important to understand.


DJbrony
November 15, 2013

that is a very interesting find about the langauges of the nords and such, It makes me feel happy about knowing this since i been trying my best to find the charts before.

by DJbrony
November 15, 2013

that is a very interesting find about the langauges of the nords and such, It makes me feel happy about knowing this since i been trying my best to find the charts before.


Dovah Goul
June 27, 2014

The real nord's so called vikings speak the language of futhark

by Dovah Goul
June 27, 2014

The real nord's so called vikings speak the language of futhark


paarthurnax
Administrator
June 27, 2014

Well, Futhark is just an alphabet, like Daedric, rather than a language. It would have been used to write the real-world proto-Germanic languages, and later Old Norse.

by paarthurnax
June 27, 2014

Well, Futhark is just an alphabet, like Daedric, rather than a language. It would have been used to write the real-world proto-Germanic languages, and later Old Norse.

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